 | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —Bruce Schlickbernd
|
| | | (...) We've been down that road before. Science specifically places no faith in much of anything - not even results, which is why experiments are duplicated to see if the same results are obtained by a different set of senses. New information can (...) (21 years ago, 15-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | |
| | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —John Neal
|
| | | | (...) I know this is ploughed ground; I was specifically referring to the creation of the universe. Either God started it, or it simply started itself (neither theory is "scientific") (...) That's 5-0 Vikings to you my friend! Now I must go and (...) (21 years ago, 15-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —Bruce Schlickbernd
|
| | | | (...) Science does not pretend to have the answer to the origin of the universe. It has speculation, to be sure, and some ideas on how the creation of the universe progressed. It's one of those questions that we don't see the answer to now, but from (...) (21 years ago, 15-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —John Neal
|
| | | | (...) What I am saying is that this particular question is unique and cannot, by definition, be answered by Science. (...) Science will never come up with the answer period. Any speculation about the origin of the universe is pure flattery. Even if (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —Dave Schuler
|
| | | | (...) That's called special pleading, and it's a fallacy. It's a double-standard based in circular reasoning and cannot be used in any logically sound argument. (...) Well, that's as much a statement of faith as anything I've heard you make, and it (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —John Neal
|
| | | | (...) I have to admit that I am surprised we are even debating this because I thought that there was consensus here. WRT to the origin of the universe, you say that "...we don't have the tools to verify our hypotheses. All in good time." Are those (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —Dave Schuler
|
| | | | (...) Well, let's disclaim once again that science isn't in the business of proving anything as 100% fact, so I reserve the statement that science will always permit modification to existing theory. Science hasn't yet produced a supernova in the (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —John Neal
|
| | | | (...) Hmmm, sounds convenient (point 2 from point 1) and complicated:-) (...) Yes, I am conceding this from the beginning. (...) My point is that if you hold that the universe always existed, that is a faith statement as much as any about God having (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —Dave Schuler
|
| | | | (...) But the key difference is that I am saying "I accept that the universe may always have existed," rather than "I believe that God has always existed." I offer and accept the universe's existence as a possibility, but I don't put faith in that (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —John Neal
|
| | | | (...) Okay, you are toying with me, but to be honest, you have to start somewhere to logically explain stuff. At the beginning of any one of those theories must be faith, because something from nothing is not scientific. (...) The problem is that (...) (21 years ago, 19-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
| | | | | | Re: Holy crap! Four out of five scientists claim.... —Dave Schuler
|
| | | | I missed this post in all the commotion, so I didn't reply earlier. My apologies to John for the delay. (...) What's unscientific about it, exactly? Thermodymanics allows for "something from nothing" as long as the net effect is zero. Quantum vacuum (...) (21 years ago, 23-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
|
| | | | |
