 | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | (...) Please elaborate. Personally, I think a (known to be occupied) hotel is a "don't shoot" place, much like a hospital. If the troops see anything that disproves that, then they should report to the hierarchy and ask for orders. It was a very (...) (21 years ago, 9-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) I think this particular regime waived that notion when they started stationing (and firing) AA from inside hospitals and stationing (and firing) tanks next to mosques. These reporters were told that Baghdad was a dangerous place and they would (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | | | (...) Evolution? Don't you mean natural selection? Cheers Richie (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | (...) So what - you soot the mosque next to the tank, or the tank? Do you shoot the hospital wards next to the AA, or the AA? Or in this case, does the tank shoot at the MoI (target), or the hotel some 100+ meters from it? (...) Precisely. Those are (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) You shoot the tank, or the AA, and hope for the best. I like Frank's analysis... if your enemy is desperate enough to blow off the normal rules of war, you don't get a free pass, you still have to do your best to stick to your own rules and (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | | | (...) A clever idea, but a common misconception: after tens of thousands of years of people existing, most of us are still pretty stupid - at least some of the time (hey, I persist in posting to o-t.d!). The long run must be pretty long indeed! (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | (...) Actually, I'd say we're pretty smart. In reality, I think the average person doesn't have much care for most of what goes on in the world because it simply doesn't really effect them (see my earlier discussion on the total impact to me (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Stupid People (was Re: Hotel Palestine) —Richie Dulin
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| | | | | | | | (...) Probably true. But Larry's assertion was that stupid people getting themselves killed was 'evolution in action'. Assuming that when Larry says 'evolution' he means 'evolution [of something] through natural selection', I see no evidence that (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | (...) And is it your responsability? Or accountability, if you prefer? (...) There was no such thing. If there were an RPG, knoing it's fire would have been obviously noticed (and reporters had the time to run), it could be taken down with a shell. (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) Do they have to wait for orders from above for ANY threat? How far up do they have to go to wait for orders? Does each soldier have to call Bush (commander in chief) on the phone before shooting someone who might be a non-combatant? Soldiers (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) No. (...) It's not just "wait for orders"; is "wait for superior assessment of the altered situation". The hotel, which would in abstract be a non-target, might become one AFTER command's assessment of the situation. They receive info from the (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) If the sniper had fired an RPG at the tanks instead of an AK-47 (or whatever), would you likewise assert that the targeted soldiers should hunker down and wait? And, once you agree that the presence of an RPG changes things, you'll need to (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | (...) No. In case an RPG had been fired, people (near it) in the hotel would have been able to tell and run away. And the response would have been proportional. Then again, was there a sniper? (...) Would a sniper be so IDIOT to the point of (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Frank Filz
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| | | | (...) But why does some "commander" have to make a decision? The tank commander is a "commander". If a tank commander can't make immediate decisions, then how can you argue that anyone short of the chief can make decisions? Does a private have to (...) (21 years ago, 10-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Hotel Palestine —Pedro Silva
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| | | | (...) Targets suspected of housing the enemy, but known to house third parties. Regarding the command level, I argue the commander of the tank hadn't got enough information to make that specific decision: he should have been told it was a hotel, and (...) (21 years ago, 11-Apr-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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