Subject:
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Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:20:16 GMT
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Viewed:
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917 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dan Boger writes:
> On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 06:13:27PM +0000, John wrote:
> > > "Every morning John Neal must publicly declare that God does not exist."
> > > you wouldn't say "that's okay, since they're not endorsing any religion, nor
> > > are they explicitly forbidding any religion." Yet that statement is exactly
> > > analogous to requiring an atheist to say "under God." If you think
> > > otherwise, please explain the difference.
> >
> > First, there is no "requirement". The state will not force you to speak those
> > words (in fact it *allows* you to *not* speak them). A perfect analogy would
> > be if Congress passed that same law but then included, "But if he feels
> > uncomfortable saying it, he doesn't have to".
>
> but wouldn't that fact that the state "asked" that you say the words bad
> enough? I will have to say the pledge of allegance when I become a
> naturalized citizen. Do you think I won't say "under god", when the INS
> officer asks me to? Of course I will. Do you think it won't bother me
> though?
>
> If the state can "allow" me not to speak the words (as you said above)
> then it's "asking" me to speak them. And that's an endorsement of
> religion.
I believe that one can acknowledge God without endorsing any particular
religion.
The fact is that the vast majority of Americans believe that we are a country
under God. The religious background of those same Americans is wildly
different. They like saying "under God" and "God bless America"-- using God
language. They would never force anyone to believe it, or even to say it, but
they like having it, because it is patriotic, and it makes them feel connected
and good. It is our way to express that we are different than all nations,
that we have been blessed, and that we have a responsibility to carry the
banner of freedom and liberty in the world today.
How many senators last year on 9-11 sang along with "God Bless America" who
were atheists? A lot. Why? Because it was the patriotic thing (if not
politically wise) to do.
And let's face it. This whole hubbub is politics. Michael Newdow has issues.
There's no tyranny or persecution going on-- if anything I'd say that
Christianity itself is being persecuted.
So I say to atheists-- let the misguided be. It's all a bunch of hooey anyway;
why let it bother you? Think of it as Nationalism (which I believe much of it
is), or is it with Nationalism that you all have a problem?
I'm just afraid that if atheists like Newdow keep pressing these issues, there
is going to be a nasty backlash that nobody wants to see.
-John
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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| (...) Believing in God, and believing we are a country under God (a theocracy) are two vastly different things. Even if you are accurate in your claim, it would simply indicate that the vast majority of Americans are delusional (50 million Frenchmen (...) (22 years ago, 12-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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| (...) Since the notion of "God" is absurd why should he or anyone be encouraged to speak of it at all? And how can you claim that God isn't an artifact of a particular religion? Does God mean Hera and Zeus? (...) We haven't been blessed. The very (...) (22 years ago, 17-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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| (...) but wouldn't that fact that the state "asked" that you say the words bad enough? I will have to say the pledge of allegance when I become a naturalized citizen. Do you think I won't say "under god", when the INS officer asks me to? Of course I (...) (22 years ago, 11-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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