Subject:
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Re: Fixing the world (was Re: Ldraw cannon
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 11 Dec 1998 03:35:51 GMT
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Reply-To:
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lpien@ctp.IWANTNOSPAM.com%saynotospam%
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2014 times
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<366E0FD1.67876FA4@ctp.IWANTNOSPAM.com> <3664BF87.5043@writeme.com>
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"Robert M. Dye" wrote:
>
> Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > The answer in all cases is no. No sacrifice.
>
> Okay, now you've lost me. I would have said that this giving of blood,
> even knowing that it might cause you to miss work and lose income, would
> count as a sacrifice. In fact, I used the example of giving blood in a
> homily once, to make just this point.
This is a subtle point but an important one. Life is a series of choices
and trade offs. Every waking moment we are faced with a choice about
something or another. Some are bigger than others, naturally.
To act in an altruistic manner is to make a choice that is against your
own self interest. That is, it is counter survival. If you carry out an
analysis that shows that an action is beneficial, even if it appears
sacrificial, it is not a sacrifice. Further, if you make a choice, even
one that ends your own life, because you value something else more, it's
not a sacrifice, it is a free choice.
The little boy in your example may or may not have been sacrificing when
he decided to give his sister his blood. He clearly loved and valued his
sister. If I choose to do things that benefit my family, or others that
I deeply value and respect, because of that value and respect, it is not
a sacrifice. It is only a sacrifice when I choose to do things out of a
sense of guilt or duty, even though I don't respect or value the person
who benefits.
It is no sacrifice for me to give my life for my country, but rather a
payment in the coin the country can most use at the time for the value
that the country gave to me. But it must be voluntary. I would go down
swinging rather than answer a call to conscription, for conscription is
slavery.
I reject altruism and I reject sacrifice, as I have defined it. You may
think my definition is a bit screwy... Yet many religions and other
moral codes preach that very definition. They state that it is not
altruistic to give something up for another because you value the other
person, only to give something up for someone you do not value. "you are
your brother's keeper". While I can't quote the verses to you right now
I recall reading this very thing in the new testament.
It certainly permeates the notion of "from each according to his
ability..."
Now, I know that I am leaving stuff unanswered. That is always a risk
when several people are responding to one person's posts.
But I just can't answer every post. If you really really want to dig
into this, read some Ayn Rand. You may or may not agree, and it is not
my goal to convince anyone, really, it isn't. But she argues the case
against altruism far more eloquently than I do, so you'll have the
arguments in front of you.
Ayn isn't right about everything, and I am not an Objectivist, per se.
But I am a bit more anti sacrifice than the run of the mill Libertarian.
Most libertarians are more pragmatic, when asked to defend lassez faire
capitalism and the rights of the individual, theirs is a utilitarian
defense. And I could mount one as well, capitalism DOES work better than
other systems. But I prefer to derive from first principles which
usually gets me into these posting-slugfests. We have a name for that,
we call it the Libertarian Macho Flash, and I fall into that trap all
the time.
So this is my last post on this for a while. I could dig into all of
Moz's posts and analyse why NZ is struggling even under a lower
**apparent** tax rate, I guess. But not today, and probably not this
year.
Suffice it to say I would put my honesty, integrity, and general morals
up against anyone, anywhere, anytime. Any mistakes I have made I have
always tried to unwind. But I am convinced that most of us ARE honest
and good, and a properly structured society can incent that behaviour. I
submit that a society that best respects individual rights best incents
it.
Note that it is not enough to assert the right of the self, a fully
formed human recognises that others have rights, and that it is a
prerequisite of a well ordered society that the rights of all be
respected. Someone who doesn't steal because he thinks others are
watching isn't as moral as someone who doesn't steal because he has
internalised that everyone has rights.
Enough.
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
- This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Ldraw cannon
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| (...) I have a shooting cannon in my to-render-bucket, but unfortunately, it has low priority. Also, at the Tracked Parts List at (URL) it says: 3 Cannon Zach Coakley Planning to Work On 1/7/98 I'll never learn if that means January 7th or July (...) (26 years ago, 6-Nov-98, to lugnet.cad)
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