Subject:
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Re: What we can do... (my 2 cents)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.loc.pt
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Date:
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Sat, 29 Sep 2001 01:50:33 GMT
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Viewed:
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852 times
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In lugnet.loc.pt, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
>
> > Examples of Arab influence are all but scarce around here. And I'd even risk
> > saying that the New World was colonized by europeans thanks to an arab
> > invention: the lateen sail, said so because of the use the Southern European
> > nations made of it. And it is arguable that England or France would send
> > expeditions due West if Spain and Portugal hadn't done it first...
It's arguable that Portugal had very little interest in going
West at any time (before Napoleon came around, of course :D ).
Until very nearly the end of the 17th century, the Americas
were more "obstacle" than anything else (Spain's dumb-luck find
in Mesoamerica notwithstanding). The Portuguese had the idea of
going around Africa to get to the real goal--South and East Asia--
and, in fact, da Gama proved them right. IIRC the whole Brazil
enterprise was almost an afterthought by comparison, and it never
really turned a profit but rather ate Portuguese lives and fortunes
whole. Only after independence did Brazil really become a fiscally
lucrative venture. (D'oh!)
Spain, on the other hand, was fairly poor. It almost broke 'em
just to send the three wee cutters with Cristoforo Colombo.
> Well noted on the arab influences, but the lateen sail was supplanted by the
> square-rigged sail for transatlantic voyages fairly quickly, though it
> remained popular in the Mediterranean for many centuries. Columbus' caravel
> Nina was converted to a square rig, for example, though much early Spanish
> and Portugese exploration was with lateen-rigged caravels. There is some
> evidence that the Romans may have used lateen sails, though what I have seen
> is far from conclusive.
But the square-rig used for transatlantic sailing was a redesign
of the old square-rig to give it the lateen's properties for tacking
purposes. The sternpost rudder, the "ship hull", all came later and
owe their innovation to borrowing.
But even so, European ships were pretty weakly made and poorly
manned until the 18th century. If you want to see the truly scary
monstrous things the Chinese were putting on the water as early as
the *fourteenth* century, take a look at this:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sultan/explorers.html
They didn't borrow much from outside China because, well, they
just plain didn't need to. The real triumph of European ship-
building was the European propensity to sponge *everything* up
from around the world and apply it in new and innovative ways.
They *had* to, given their fear of the alternative.
> Let's not forget 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc.
> :-)
We call those Arabic numerals, but they're actually a Hindi
mathematical creation that the West borrowed via the Muslim
world. The concept "zero" is completely Indian in origin.
best
LFB
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Message has 1 Reply:
Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: What we can do... (my 2 cents)
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| (...) Well noted on the arab influences, but the lateen sail was supplanted by the square-rigged sail for transatlantic voyages fairly quickly, though it remained popular in the Mediterranean for many centuries. Columbus' caravel Nina was converted (...) (23 years ago, 27-Sep-01, to lugnet.loc.pt)
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