Subject:
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Perhaps Lugnet can grow into something better? was: I miss the old Lugnet
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lugnet.general
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Date:
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Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:10:08 GMT
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In lugnet.general, Nick Crocco writes:
> Yes, I miss the old LUGNET.
> I miss people actually replying to a post. Two+ years ago, when I first
> found out about Lugnet, every post I made was replied to numerous times by
> friendly people just making small talk, telling me how much they enjoy my
> creations, or even constructive criticism. Now, it seems that the only
> extraordinary posts get recognition.
Hi, this topic has crossed my mind a few times in the last year or so, but I
guess I have a slightly more accepting view of it. I don't think that the
changes that have happened to Lugnet could have been avoided.
I started like many of us did, on RTL. I have been reading Lugnet pretty
much from the first couple months, and I started posting a few months after
that.
I believe that a lot of the enthusiasm that was here early-on was due mainly
to the fact that the whole concept was still fresh. Lugnet was (and still
is) in many respects a brand new and powerful way for all of us to get
together and share our love and talent for building with Lego Bricks.
For most of us, I think there was an initial surprise that not only were
there others out there that still enjoyed Lego as an adult hobby, but that a
place like Lugnet existed. When I first found it, it had the aura of a hip,
underground club for the Lego elite. The truly great thing about it was the
fact that the people were (almost universally) friendly, helpful, and
supportive of each other. I had belonged to many on-line groups in the
past, and they were all fraught with social politics, rudeness, and a
get-it-while-you-can sort of aggressiveness.
Lugnet was truly a special place unlike any other.
I believe it still is; it has just matured.
Over time, the new car smell has faded, but the vehicle still works great!
The initial energy and shock at the newness of it all has indeed faded, but
only slightly... I still check in at least 2 or 3 times a week to find great
and exciting MOCs from around the world, and news directly from TLC's mouth.
A few unfortunate events have happened to Lugnet that have forced the admins
to start the posting verification, and with increased traffic, they decided
to reorganize the front page. I actually think both of these changes have
been improvements. I would have to count myself in the group that dislikes
pointless "me too" posts. If you want to tell someone you like their
construction, but you have nothing to add to the conversation, just send
them a friendly email. I have been on both sides of this, sending and
receiving, and I can tell you its nicer to get a more personal comment in
the inbox, than a "me too" post.
Of course, there are those who are attention seekers above all else, and
they will continue to abuse cross-posting and such... does it bother me?
Not really, I think most of us can tag these types pretty easy and ignore them.
I spent a long time writing and
> creating objects that the fellow community would enjoy, and nobody would
> reply. Not even a quick nice job. The reason I post here in the first place
> was to hear the constructive criticism and comments. But without that,
> what's the reason?
I am not familiar with your creations, so please don't take this as a
personal comment, but most of the posts I have seen on Lugnet that recieved
no comment usually fall into a couple categories:
1. bad MOCs. I think that unless a poster requests critisizm, people will
generally not comment unless they have something positive to say. If you go
back and check, I bet about 98% of the critiques here are overwhelmingly
nice and state only encouragement. Does that mean that everyone on Lugnet
loves everyone else's MOCs? Nope. Is this lack of real critisizm a good
thing? I don't think so. If I make a MOC that sucks, I'd prefer people to
give me feedback of why than no feedback at all, but that is asking the
poster to enter a risky new level of interaction, one where people's
feelings can get hurt, and perhaps most of us are simply afraid of that.
2. bad Nettiquette. People who are overly posty come off as
attention-geeks, no matter how good their MOCs. We get tired of posting
'neato' posts week after week if the creations come too fast or do not show
growing sophistication. Lugnet has done more than just bring us together as
fans, it has exposed a lot of really good builders to each other's styles
and flairs. That means that we have started inspiring each other to build
bigger and better MOCs, and if that comes off as being clique-y so be it...
I personally can attest that without seeing all the great stuff in .space,
my ships would be very different from the way they are. I have also gotten
to talk to many people here on Lugnet, and no matter how it looks from the
outside, I don't think there are many serious cliques. When someone new
shows up with stuff to share, they are welcomed.
3. Bad presentation/communication. If you make a confusing post that links
to a poorly laid out website with small blurry pics of your MOC, its
unlikely to solicit comment no matter how amazing it may be in real life.
Its an unfortunate fact of being part of a certain media type, in this case
the web. It helps you to have a nice camera and some html skills if you
want to get other's attention and appreciation. There are always things
like Ldraw, but they rarely carry the same neato-factor as a photo of an
amazing MOC.
> seems like Lugnet has lost it's focus. I don't really like the idea of how
> the most 'popular' links are shown on the left of the page. Every topic is
> equally important, plus, half the fun of Lugnet is exploring around and
> finding the interesting topics. Besides, heated topics/info is usually in
> the newly written box often, making it easier to find.
I have to disagree here, not every topic is equally important.
I don't want to wade through 15 posts about an Australian get-together if I
am trying to find out about the new 2002 catalog. Lugnet is
compartmentalized, and I like it that way. Lugnet has the popular links on
the frontpage for a reason, and I prefer it the way it is.
There are still plently of heated topics and debates to find, and they don't
always show up on the popular list.
> I miss the old "Cool Lego Site of the Week." Remember when winning the Cool
> Lego Site of the Week was something special? I do. Now it seems like
> everybody and their room-mates have won one. There are only so many Lego
> sites (yes, there are a lot, but only so many) and giving out and award a
> week, everyone will eventually have one. Many Cool Lego Site of the Month?
It seems to me that you are complaining that you miss something that has not
changed, and your answer is to change it? I agree that it should be changed
to Cool site of the Month, which it seems to be unofficially sliding towards.
It was also created when there were Lego sites out there that had nothing to
do with Lugnet... nowadays, its getting harder and harder to find Lego fans
that don't know about Lugnet. Is that a bad thing? No, in my opinion.
Does that make the CLSOTW an outdated concept? Perhaps.
> I miss the old posting procedure. I don't like the whole "Lugnet Member"
> thing. Personally, I don't have a means to pay for a membership. I barely
> have enough money between college and necessities to live off of. I also
> dislike the new "e-mail confirmation" thing. You know how many people would
> have written a small "that's really awesome" comment on a message, but don't
> because of the extra step.
I'm not fond of the sign-in process, but I prefer it to the alternative. I
also think that $10 is not an unreasonable amount to ask for a *lifetime*
membership. If someone can't save up that much over a few months, it
clearly isn't very important to them. Again, I don't know your personal
situation. I myself am unemployed at the moment, and $10 is a lot of money
to me... in my case I am far more concerned with trying to find a job than
signing up to an internet message group (if I hadn't signed up already, for
example).
> Link banners anyone?
ugh... please, no.
> I miss Todd. Yes, Suz is doing an EXCELLENT job, but I still miss Todd. I
> remember how he used to help me with my html for my site, giving my pointers
> and so forth. Yes he's still around (hi Todd if yur reading this), but it's
> not the same.
I do think its unfortunate that he doesn't take part in topics much anymore,
but its his choice to make. I imagine Lugnet will be around for a long
time, and maybe he will come back and join in again at some time in the
future. Doing what he did for the AFOL community would burn out anyone, and
I'm sure he has a personal life and problems to deal with like all of us do.
> I miss the old Lugnet. Yes, I know things change and people change, but not
> even Lugnet can stay the same. I know a lot of people will disagree with me
> on a number of issues, but this is my own personal opinion, which I am free
> to express. Sorry guys, It's something that I just had to say...
I understand where you are coming from, but I think that we should focus on
what we can do to make Lugnet better in the future, rather than just pine
for the days of yore.
One thing that I have seen that wasn't very prevalent in the early days is a
lot more complaining and fussing over the actions of The Lego Company. We
all care a lot about our hobby, but perhaps we could try to encourage TLC
the way we encourage each other. They are people, too.
I have to say that the complaining *has* gotten better since they started
the classics and such, but it doesn't feel like a real change in attitude,
but more of a placation of a tantrumming spoiled child.
Is that the public image we want Lugnet to have?
This post is meant to be taken in the best way possible. If we work
together, we can make Lugnet far more than it ever was in the early years!
cheers!
Joel Kuester
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Lugnet can always grow; it's up to us to make it happen.
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| (...) I don't either--this was really an incredibly open forum, the likes of which I only see on 'blogs and Portal of Evil anymore (and trust me, you don't ever want this to become either of those things). The gateway Todd put in place is really (...) (23 years ago, 3-Nov-01, to lugnet.general) !
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Message is in Reply To:
| | I miss the old LUGNET...
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| Yes, I miss the old LUGNET. I miss people actually replying to a post. Two+ years ago, when I first found out about Lugnet, every post I made was replied to numerous times by friendly people just making small talk, telling me how much they enjoy my (...) (23 years ago, 30-Oct-01, to lugnet.general) !!
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