Subject:
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Re: Hey everyone stop and check this new LDVIEW like app
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad
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Date:
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Sat, 9 Feb 2002 09:08:01 GMT
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Viewed:
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491 times
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Sproaticus wrote:
> In lugnet.cad, Kyle McDonald writes:
>
> > Like all Java stuff... It's getting faster all the time. J3d 1.3 is
> > much better.
>
>
> Yah, I acknowledge that readily. But I'm still going to assert that it's
> not yet ready for prime time. ;-)
I gues that depend son your definition of primetime :)
> Don't get me wrong -- I'm a big fan of Java. My dream job is to get paid
> again for rolling Swing GUIs! :-9 But my experiences with Java3D (even
> 1.3, checked it out last week, trying to uninstall it even as we speak) has
> been disappointing when there's no hardware acceleration.
You used to get paid for that? Cool. ;^)
>
> Sure I read it. I've also installed Java3D, and run the examples, and
> modified a few to change the thread priority. Its performance is still
> sluggish.
>
> My box isn't a speed demon, but it's no slouch either. I'm running a K6-500
> with 192 Mb of RAM...and no 3D accelerator card. The only other machine I
> have to test it on is a 1.4GHz P4 with 512 Mb of RAM and some GeForce
> something-or-other video card -- so of course it'll run fast on that.
I'm not much better off. I've got a P3-600 in my laptop, but it's got
only some 2.5MB trident dumb video chip. No 3D here either. I've only
got 128MB - that does get tight when running Win2K, NetBeans and trying
to run my J3D app on top of that. But If I take NetBeans out of the
picture it's not that bad.
I know my code is still pretty ugly and there is plenty of room for
optimizations. So I'm hoping it will get better and better.
> But I suspect that Java3D is better geared towards a smallish number of flat
> surfaces with bitmap textures and nifty alpha blending (a la most 3d video
> games today) and not so good with very-largish numbers of small polygons
> (80% of which have this nasty habit of overlapping). Unfortunately, LDraw
> fits squarely in the latter category. Witness the unusually high memory
> requirements and rendering times for even medium-sized LDraw models.
Smallish? I'll admit that most people make heavy use of textures, but
most of the numbers I hear on the Java3d-interest list are like 20K to
1 million triangles...
It's a scenegraph architecture mainly built right on OpenGL. OpenGL does
nearly all the hardwork. I can't imagine it will have much more trouble
with a large number of triangles than OGL does.
> And yet, it's not that difficult to optimize a renderer for DAT viewing
> (assuming you're writing the renderer). So clearly, there's a disparity there.
Yes well... I've run into this already. Because of the closedness of
the Scenegraph architecture in J3D it's tough to do the conditional
lines the .DAT format uses. I have a few ideas, so while I haven't even
attempted it yet, I haven't given up either.
> I think Java3D has potential to be useful for LDraw stuff *eventually*, but
> not just right now, especially not on medium-rate systems like mine.
Yes, because of it's dependence/use of OpenGl (and Direct3D on Win)
it does make good use of any HW accel you may have. I don't have any
though, so hopefully any App I develop will work good on everyone
else's machines ;)
>
> > It is also designed to yield the CPU to what ever else needs it.
> > Will it use 100% of the CPU if nothing else is waiting? yes.
> > What's wrong with that? As soon as some other thread as something
> > to do the frame rate slows, and the other threads run. It's
> > pretty flexible. (it's kinda like being 'nice'd in UNIX.)
>
>
> Well, great and flexible on true operating systems, e.g. Win NT where things
> actually multitask, but not so hot on the 16-bit versions of Windows like
> this deadbeat Win98-thingy on my laptop. (1) Once it gets 100% of my
> processer, it refuses to give it up. Or, like my friend observed, "That
> processer ain't pegged, it's nailed right to the freaking wall!" :-,
Well, It *is* kinda like a busy loop. :) but that's kinda the point.
I do use it on Win2k so maybe I'm not getting the full effect ;)
> 1. Just a bit of pent-up-frustration angst there; I'd be running Win2k if
> there were drivers for this box...
Been there Done that. That's why I made sure to get 2K on this machine
from the get go.
Have a good night!
-Kyle
--
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-------------------------------ooO( )Ooo-------------------------------
Kyle J. McDonald (o o)
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\\\//
(o o) kmcdonald@BigFoot.COM
-------------------------------ooO(_)Ooo-------------------------------
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Hey everyone stop and check this new LDVIEW like app
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| (...) Yah, I acknowledge that readily. But I'm still going to assert that it's not yet ready for prime time. ;-) Don't get me wrong -- I'm a big fan of Java. My dream job is to get paid again for rolling Swing GUIs! :-9 But my experiences with (...) (23 years ago, 9-Feb-02, to lugnet.cad)
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