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In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
There's still no definite answer. LEGO might not be willing to commit
themselves. Think about it - if they said they'll supply 9V track forever, they
can't keep that promise. If they say they'll make it for 2 more years, there'll
be uproar that that's not long enough. What can they say? The only thing they
could say is that they'll make it whilst there's still a profit to be made from
it. How much are you going to be buying?
As for new units, I don't think there's any point asking for that as there's no
great need. For 9V you only need 5 units - straights, curves, points, motor and
regulator. Everything else (and all future train sets) are compatible - just
plug in your choice of motor.
I'm just disappointed there's no stand-alone version of the IR unit. Kids
absolutely love little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 engines, and this setup rules them out.
Jason Railton
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In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> > Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> > ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> > then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
>
> There's still no definite answer. LEGO might not be willing to commit
> themselves. Think about it - if they said they'll supply 9V track forever, they
> can't keep that promise. If they say they'll make it for 2 more years, there'll
> be uproar that that's not long enough. What can they say? The only thing they
> could say is that they'll make it whilst there's still a profit to be made from
> it. How much are you going to be buying?
>
> As for new units, I don't think there's any point asking for that as there's no
> great need. For 9V you only need 5 units - straights, curves, points, motor and
> regulator. Everything else (and all future train sets) are compatible - just
> plug in your choice of motor.
>
> I'm just disappointed there's no stand-alone version of the IR unit. Kids
> absolutely love little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 engines, and this setup rules them out.
>
>
> Jason Railton
I'm no expert on the manufacturing process but I'd like to know if they have
altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply potential
for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on existing stocks
until they run out.
Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason's and I cannot
see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to part with
serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in order to
'upgrade'. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
Jon
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Jason J. Railton wrote:
> > In lugnet.trains, Derek Lim wrote:
> > > Forgive me if it has been covered before, but the primary question I'd like to
> > > ask is whether TLC will continue to produce the old 9v track and 9v motors - and
> > > then, if so, will new sets be released based on those old units?
> >
> > There's still no definite answer. LEGO might not be willing to commit
> > themselves. Think about it - if they said they'll supply 9V track forever, they
> > can't keep that promise. If they say they'll make it for 2 more years, there'll
> > be uproar that that's not long enough. What can they say? The only thing they
> > could say is that they'll make it whilst there's still a profit to be made from
> > it. How much are you going to be buying?
> >
> > As for new units, I don't think there's any point asking for that as there's no
> > great need. For 9V you only need 5 units - straights, curves, points, motor and
> > regulator. Everything else (and all future train sets) are compatible - just
> > plug in your choice of motor.
> >
> > I'm just disappointed there's no stand-alone version of the IR unit. Kids
> > absolutely love little 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 engines, and this setup rules them out.
> >
> >
> > Jason Railton
>
> I'm no expert on the manufacturing process but I'd like to know if they have
> altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
> these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply potential
> for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on existing stocks
> until they run out.
>
> Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason's and I cannot
> see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to part with
> serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in order to
> 'upgrade'. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
>
> Jon
To play devil's advocate for a moment - how is the situation different from the
conversion from 4.5V to 12V? That needed conductor rails, points, crossing,
motor and transformer.
In cost terms, including average inflation of 3% for 16 years (prices up by
60%), the conductor rails 7854/7855 cost about two thirds the price of 9V metal
track 4515/4520, £4.83 per box as spares in 1990 compared to £11.99 now, though
the cost of conversion was reduced by re-use of the rails. A pair of
unmotorised switch points 7856 cost £18.56 then, 4531 costs 22.99 now. That's
cheaper by 29%! The transformer costs about the same now as then (£40), so it's
cheaper by 37%. A train motor cost £19-£20 then, £22.99 now, cheaper by 32%.
Therefore all the more expensive items are cheaper to upgrade and the basic
straights and curves were artificially cheaper as a benefit of the versatility
of the old track.
For those who develop a serious rail interest and have a significant quantity of
LEGO plastic track and train-related sets, the question is whether the
conversion would be more worthwhile than a move to conventional model railways.
The new motor could be re-used to boost power to a long train, but this
mitigation depends on how much train-related LEGO the child has.
Would a child converting to the hobby train miss the horn? At least that would
still work from the remote control :-)
Mark
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In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> To play devil's advocate for a moment - how is the situation different from the
> conversion from 4.5V to 12V? That needed conductor rails, points, crossing,
> motor and transformer.
In the past 4.5V trains could have short baseplates with a 4 or 6 wheeled
motor only. The now IR trains can only have 8 wheels and only a 30 stud long
baseplate.
In the past even 12V trains could be converted to 4.5V. Now not all 9V trains
can be converted to IR trains, only those with a 30 stud baseplate.
Why would someone convert a 12V train back to 4.5V? During the upgrade from
4.5V to 12V many people still used the 4.5V trains mixed with 12V. Sometimes
mayby want to exchange motors to have an 4.5V train run on 12V and a 12V train
converted back to 4.5V. So both trains can be on the tracks.
Now this is not possible to convert evey 9V train back to IR.
Niels
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In lugnet.trains, Niels Karsdorp wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
> > To play devil's advocate for a moment - how is the situation different from the
> > conversion from 4.5V to 12V? That needed conductor rails, points, crossing,
> > motor and transformer.
>
> In the past 4.5V trains could have short baseplates with a 4 or 6 wheeled
> motor only. The now IR trains can only have 8 wheels and only a 30 stud long
> baseplate.
> In the past even 12V trains could be converted to 4.5V. Now not all 9V trains
> can be converted to IR trains, only those with a 30 stud baseplate.
>
> Why would someone convert a 12V train back to 4.5V? During the upgrade from
> 4.5V to 12V many people still used the 4.5V trains mixed with 12V. Sometimes
> mayby want to exchange motors to have an 4.5V train run on 12V and a 12V train
> converted back to 4.5V. So both trains can be on the tracks.
> Now this is not possible to convert evey 9V train back to IR.
>
> Niels
Moving from 4.5v to 12v had 'added value' in providing better control, many new
features such as electric points, crossings etc. but more than anything else, it
was the new expanding range which provided the most promise. If there is no 'new
and exciting range' in the 9v rail-powered system, then there is no incentive to
shell out big sums of money to change over.
Jon.
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
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I’m no expert on the manufacturing process but I’d like to know if they have
altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply
potential for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on
existing stocks until they run out.
Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason’s and I cannot
see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to part with
serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in order to
‘upgrade’. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
Jon
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I did, I started out with 4.5v, and moved to 9v when it came out.
What I don’t understand is the decision to produce a $100+ set whith this new
technology, as a first kit. I thought the whole point was to produce a $50 set
to get into the “birthday gift” segment. Looking at the new sets, the ICE train
looks about right. I would think the green engine is a perfect stand alone item,
or combine it with a single frieght car. The crain rail truck should definitly
be packaged seperately. I’d like to own more then one of the green engine, but
not if I have to buy them in $100+ sets.
Mat
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In lugnet.trains, Mathew Clayson wrote:
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
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I’m no expert on the manufacturing process but I’d like to know if they have
altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply
potential for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on
existing stocks until they run out.
Although I welcome the new trains my gripe is similar to Jason’s and I
cannot see why someone starting with the playtrains would be persueded to
part with serious £s to buy a new motor, regulator, metal track etc. in
order to ‘upgrade’. In this respect, it is more a one-way compatibility.
Jon
|
I did, I started out with 4.5v, and moved to 9v when it came out.
What I don’t understand is the decision to produce a $100+ set whith this new
technology, as a first kit. I thought the whole point was to produce a $50
set to get into the “birthday gift” segment. Looking at the new sets, the ICE
train looks about right. I would think the green engine is a perfect stand
alone item, or combine it with a single frieght car. The crain rail truck
should definitly be packaged seperately. I’d like to own more then one of the
green engine, but not if I have to buy them in $100+ sets.
Mat
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But moving to 9v from 4.5v gave you significant advantages and was an upgrade
which added value. The new trains are already good - remote control, sound,
cheap track, reverse loop capabilities, cab control etc. so the change to 9v
rail powered trains is not a total improvement. I could list out the advantages
and disadvantges of each range but that’s not the point - why would a newbie
want to change to the ‘old’ system when all the new Lego releases were the new
system? Am I missing something here?
Jon
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"Mathew Clayson" <mathew_impact1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Isw0Dr.1qw0@lugnet.com...
> In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Reynolds wrote:
[ ... snipped ... ]
> What I don't understand is the decision to produce a $100+ set whith this
> new
> technology, as a first kit. I thought the whole point was to produce a $50
> set
> to get into the "birthday gift" segment. Looking at the new sets, the ICE
> train
> looks about right. I would think the green engine is a perfect stand alone
> item,
> or combine it with a single frieght car. The crain rail truck should
> definitly
> be packaged seperately. I'd like to own more then one of the green engine,
> but
> not if I have to buy them in $100+ sets.
>
> Mat
I agree completely. LEGO could (should?) take a lesson from the Brio/Thomas
market. The reason it is successful is because you add to it incrementally
and at a low price point. Buying an engine, rolling stock, or other
accessory doesn't have to be a significant investment. TLG's continues to
package their trains as an all inclusive offering which is fine but it
limits their "add on" sales opportunities. Once a parent buys a train for
their child, they will are likely to buy additional cars to go with the
train but are very unlikely to buy another complete train set.
Mike
--
--
Mike Walsh - mike_walsh at mindspring.com
http://www.ncltc.cc - North Carolina LEGO Train Club
http://www.carolinatrainbuilders.com - Carolina Train Builders
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=mpw - CTB/Brick Depot
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Mike Walsh posted a link on the ILTCO list which has a much cleaner image.
http://www.iltco.org/docs/TLC/Train_Calendar_Benelux_High.pdf
It appears that the dummy engine on the ICE train is 6 studs shorter then the
working engine. They used a lt grey curved slope to fill in a gap.
A small detail I hadn’t noticed on the greeen engine, a caution sticker that has
a ligtning bolt and “9v”. Funny.
Mat
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Hello
>
> I'm no expert on the manufacturing process but I'd like to know if they have
> altered all the moulds for the track pieces and the clip-on motor frames. If
> these are completely new moulds then it shows there is a future supply potential
> for the 9v track-powered range. If not, we will have to rely on existing stocks
> until they run out.
Jan Beyer said at the 1000steine-event, that they had to use new moulds for
every type of rails, for they want that the new and old ones to fit together.
They had to make the new ones a little bit higher, so there is no difference in
height becuase of the missing metal part
Volker
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