| |
Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way.
See comments below
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Mike Poindexter wrote:
> >
> > John,
> >
> > Is there some reason to put 20 levels of bricks other than to use up all those
> > bricks in colors nobody likes?
>
> There are two competing philosophies here...
>
> PNLTC has tables. They put their tables together and they build the
> layout "from scratch" each time, putting track together and buildings
> down, etc. onto a brown or green colored table. At least that is what I
> understand (especially since I have seen a video of them setting up).
> This makes for a highly flexible, but long time to set up, layout. Every
> show is different! It can take all day to set up and 1/2 day to tear
> down
Well, it's almost from scratch. We work on a table arrangement and a track plan for
each show so we have a "schematic" to work from to ease on setup. Some of us have
pre-built modules, not a set number of bricks deep. We just make sure the track
height is going to line up at the height that is needed. We've trimmed our setup
time down tremendously. We've been able to do most setups in under 5 hours, and
that's at a leisurely pace because we're chatting the whole time. Now tear down has
improved dramatically, an hour to two.
Last night we had a show at my kids school carnival. Dan Parker and myself set up a
little on Thursday night, 1 1/2 hours on Friday by myself, then Dan P. and Dave
VinZant showed up and an hour and half later we were fully up and running. So it
was roughly 3 people 3 hours set-up.
Now it wasn't one of our biggest layouts, but it was complex to a certain extent.
We had to design the layout for the stage, and because we didn't want kids to stand
to the steps, we built part of it over the steps. It was a two level layout, one
at a 36" height (covering the steps), the other on the stage at a 30" height (18"
above the first), 2 lower loops 2 upper loops and 4 kids loops (500 to 600 sections
of track). There was 5 bridges: 60", 45", two 30", and a new 25". For tables we
had 13 30x60's, 1 30x45, 1 30x30, and 2 15x30.
There was 5 people for tear down, we were on our way home in less than an hour and a
half.
> GMLTC has modules. Each module is a completely scenicked environment and
> the track is permanently affixed to the lego below. Only the very large
> buildings that otherwise would make the module too tall to transport
> effectively are removed, and they always go back in the same place.
> GMLTC modules are more like model railroad modules in that they are
> pre-built.
I'll admit GMLTC's modules look nice, lots of nice scenery.
> This makes for a fairly rigid (you can vary the number of modules you
> bring, and the order in which you arrange them, but a module has what it
> has on it unless you tear down and build again, something that N-trak
> can't do as easily, LOL) but fast to set up. Modules are brought in on
> wheeled racks, out of the custom trailer, deployed onto the folddown
> tables, and you're up and running in 1/2 hour, and you can tear down in
> about the same time.
I was wondering how may ways you could arrange those modules. As I understand the
tables are 30x45 (or larger), does the track come out in the same place on *each*
module? It didn't look that way but just wondering.
> Now, you COULD make modules out of something else than Lego and just
> affix the track via nails or whatever.
>
> But given that they are Lego, and given that they are 30 to 50 or so
> inches wide, you NEED to be 15 bricks high. Think about what a 30 inch
> wide, 45 inch long 5 brick high module would be like. It would be too
> fragile to live without a sheet of plywood always underneath it. These
> modules can be lifted up, flipped over, stacked on top of each other,
> etc.
>
> Now, as it turns out, the modules DO live in wooden carriers that have
> power strips on them etc. once they are done, but during construction
> they do not.
As I saw in another post by John N. that stated modules have to stay on plywood. So
yes there is quite a bit of lego there, but it still has to sit on wooden tables
maybe similar to the ones we use.
> Given that they have to mostly be 15 bricks high for structural
> integrity, that has been taken advantage of. There IS a subway in one
> module, and the features such as the Ore Dock and some of the bridges
> are built in at track level instead of elevated.
>
> PNLTC approach is much much cheaper. GMLTC is much much more purist.
> GMLTC is lucky to have a fanatic such as Conan who has millions of
> bricks to build modules with. He is the entire reason the club exists.
Cheaper? Huh? Not-as-pure? I'm sorry but I don't understand, maybe I'm just taking
this wrong. I know you have alot of bricks, probably far more than me, but we both
know their cost. At PNLTC we have some members with very small collections that do
want they can with what they've got, and some with collections that make the others
short circuit. :-)
If Conan has millions of bricks to build modules with, is there much cost to other
members? Sounds like a really great person to share Lego like that.
Now mind you this is all coming from the guy that uses burps for mountains and Duplo
for backing support, all from Lego. I wish I had a million gray, brown, green, and
tan bricks and plates to make my scenery in, but hey I do what I can with what I've
got. :-)
Well I've got some new sets to go get that a friend brought from Norway.
I think I'm going to go build, later.
Tom
--
Thomas's & Kristin's Home Page
http://home1.gte.net/trafert1/
PNLTC Member
http://www.pnltc.org/
|
|
| |
It seems to me that there are two fundamental differences
between the PNLTC and the GMLTC. Even though I live
within I hour of the GMLTC, it would be almost impossible
for me to build my own module and just show up at some
of the GMLTC train shows where I could build a "module"
for the PNLTC and show up for only some shows. The main
reason the GMLTC does it the way they do is Conan just
so happens to have one heck of a lot of bricks.
--
Paul Foster
http://reality.sgi.com/foster_stco/lego.html
|
|
| |
"Thomas P. Rafert" wrote:
> Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way.
> See comments below
>
> Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> > Mike Poindexter wrote:
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > Is there some reason to put 20 levels of bricks other than to use up all those
> > > bricks in colors nobody likes?
> >
> > There are two competing philosophies here...
> >
> > PNLTC has tables. They put their tables together and they build the
> > layout "from scratch" each time, putting track together and buildings
> > down, etc. onto a brown or green colored table. At least that is what I
> > understand (especially since I have seen a video of them setting up).
> > This makes for a highly flexible, but long time to set up, layout. Every
> > show is different! It can take all day to set up and 1/2 day to tear
> > down
>
> Well, it's almost from scratch. We work on a table arrangement and a track plan for
> each show so we have a "schematic" to work from to ease on setup. Some of us have
> pre-built modules, not a set number of bricks deep. We just make sure the track
> height is going to line up at the height that is needed. We've trimmed our setup
> time down tremendously. We've been able to do most setups in under 5 hours, and
> that's at a leisurely pace because we're chatting the whole time. Now tear down has
> improved dramatically, an hour to two.
>
> Last night we had a show at my kids school carnival. Dan Parker and myself set up a
> little on Thursday night, 1 1/2 hours on Friday by myself, then Dan P. and Dave
> VinZant showed up and an hour and half later we were fully up and running. So it
> was roughly 3 people 3 hours set-up.
> Now it wasn't one of our biggest layouts, but it was complex to a certain extent.
> We had to design the layout for the stage, and because we didn't want kids to stand
> to the steps, we built part of it over the steps. It was a two level layout, one
> at a 36" height (covering the steps), the other on the stage at a 30" height (18"
> above the first), 2 lower loops 2 upper loops and 4 kids loops (500 to 600 sections
> of track). There was 5 bridges: 60", 45", two 30", and a new 25". For tables we
> had 13 30x60's, 1 30x45, 1 30x30, and 2 15x30.
>
> There was 5 people for tear down, we were on our way home in less than an hour and a
> half.
>
> > GMLTC has modules. Each module is a completely scenicked environment and
> > the track is permanently affixed to the lego below. Only the very large
> > buildings that otherwise would make the module too tall to transport
> > effectively are removed, and they always go back in the same place.
> > GMLTC modules are more like model railroad modules in that they are
> > pre-built.
>
> I'll admit GMLTC's modules look nice, lots of nice scenery.
>
> > This makes for a fairly rigid (you can vary the number of modules you
> > bring, and the order in which you arrange them, but a module has what it
> > has on it unless you tear down and build again, something that N-trak
> > can't do as easily, LOL) but fast to set up. Modules are brought in on
> > wheeled racks, out of the custom trailer, deployed onto the folddown
> > tables, and you're up and running in 1/2 hour, and you can tear down in
> > about the same time.
>
> I was wondering how may ways you could arrange those modules. As I understand the
> tables are 30x45 (or larger), does the track come out in the same place on *each*
> module? It didn't look that way but just wondering.
Actually, yes the track pops out at exactly the same place on every module, 2 studs in
for the outside loop, and another 4 studs in after that for the second loop.
> > Now, you COULD make modules out of something else than Lego and just
> > affix the track via nails or whatever.
> >
> > But given that they are Lego, and given that they are 30 to 50 or so
> > inches wide, you NEED to be 15 bricks high. Think about what a 30 inch
> > wide, 45 inch long 5 brick high module would be like. It would be too
> > fragile to live without a sheet of plywood always underneath it. These
> > modules can be lifted up, flipped over, stacked on top of each other,
> > etc.
> >
> > Now, as it turns out, the modules DO live in wooden carriers that have
> > power strips on them etc. once they are done, but during construction
> > they do not.
>
> As I saw in another post by John N. that stated modules have to stay on plywood. So
> yes there is quite a bit of lego there, but it still has to sit on wooden tables
> maybe similar to the ones we use.
Well, they don't *have* to, it's just much easier that way. If y'all are switching
over to metal folding legs, then I would say our tables are very similar. We do brace
the tables with an inset rim of 2x4s on end to give the table itself extra rigidity.
> > Given that they have to mostly be 15 bricks high for structural
> > integrity, that has been taken advantage of. There IS a subway in one
> > module, and the features such as the Ore Dock and some of the bridges
> > are built in at track level instead of elevated.
> >
> > PNLTC approach is much much cheaper. GMLTC is much much more purist.
> > GMLTC is lucky to have a fanatic such as Conan who has millions of
> > bricks to build modules with. He is the entire reason the club exists.
>
> Cheaper? Huh? Not-as-pure? I'm sorry but I don't understand, maybe I'm just taking
> this wrong. I know you have alot of bricks, probably far more than me, but we both
> know their cost. At PNLTC we have some members with very small collections that do
> want they can with what they've got, and some with collections that make the others
> short circuit. :-)
> If Conan has millions of bricks to build modules with, is there much cost to other
> members? Sounds like a really great person to share Lego like that.
Yes, he is. Others members collections aren't too shabby, either. Most of these folk
are *well-seasoned* (read: spend $1000s each year on Lego) Lego veterans who have
enough bricks to provide a module or two for the cause. We pay our dues... to TLG;-)
> Now mind you this is all coming from the guy that uses burps for mountains and Duplo
> for backing support, all from Lego.
<gasp>
> I wish I had a million gray, brown, green, and
> tan bricks and plates to make my scenery in, but hey I do what I can with what I've
> got. :-)
And, Tom, so do we all:-) Even Conan doesn't have the luxury to build in exotic
colors. We were scraping Conan's proverbial barrel to finish our latest modules. But
to Conan's credit-- he and his uncle went out and *bought* retail 1000's of buckets and
sets over the years, and put the bricks to good use. He and his uncle were showing 12
volt trains 12 years ago on a tabletop layout, but it grew from there. Instead of
blowing $600 on an Airport shuttle or some such exotic set, he's spending that $600 on
buckets. And believe me, he is *not* a rich guy (monetarily)! Just a Legomaniac with
his priorities straight;-)
-John
> Well I've got some new sets to go get that a friend brought from Norway.
> I think I'm going to go build, later.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Thomas's & Kristin's Home Page
> http://home1.gte.net/trafert1/
> PNLTC Member
> http://www.pnltc.org/
|
|
| |
"Thomas P. Rafert" wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way.
Naa. Neither approach is **better**. They are just different.
> > PNLTC approach is much much cheaper. GMLTC is much much more purist.
> > GMLTC is lucky to have a fanatic such as Conan who has millions of
> > bricks to build modules with. He is the entire reason the club exists.
>
> Cheaper? Huh?
Sure. To do a PNLTC module base takes some wood, some paint, some
hardware. 100 bucks at most, and that's no doubt high. Then there is the
track itself, as well as the structures that go on the module.
To do a GMLTC module, almost the same investment in underlayment is
required for hardware and wood. Then there are GAWD knows how many
bricks. PLUS the structures and track, just the same as a PNLTC. The
cost of a GMLTC module before you put track or buildings on it is almost
certainly over 500 dollars worth of bricks, even considering that most
of the bricks are from heavily discounted basic buckets.
So GMLTC modules cost more. Not better, not worse, just different.
> Not-as-pure?
Yes. The "scenery" in a GMLTC module is made from Lego. Even things like
canyons. The PNLTC canyons are done with cloth, just the bridge is Lego.
Therefore GMLTC is more "pure".
Not better, not worse, just different.
> At PNLTC we have some members with very small collections that do
> want they can with what they've got, and some with collections that make the others
> short circuit. :-)
Same with GMLTC. People do what they can. Part of the contribution is to
build something unique using Conan's parts. While I've been there (which
unfortunately is coming to an end... I have resigned from CTP and won't
be in minneapolis much longer) I was priviledged to build, using Conan's
parts, 2 sanding towers, a coal tower, a water tank, a gas-electric
doodlebug and some other misc stuff, as well as helping work on several
modules, and on the roof of the engine house. I am building a transfer
table which I hope to finish before I leave.
John G has built a LOT of rolling stock. He's their best rolling stock
builder, or was till I got there and showed them all a few tricks. :-)
> If Conan has millions of bricks to build modules with, is there much cost to other
> members? Sounds like a really great person to share Lego like that.
Yes, he is truly a unique human being. One of the kindest, gentlest,
most laid back dudes I have ever been privileged to know. Other people
do contribute significantly, though not to the same scale. I think John
Gerlach has well north of 2000 invested in just filling in gaps that
needed to be filled when Conan was short of something, and several
members, as John N said, have *A* module under construction for use in
shows. But Conan has 16!
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
- This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
|
|
| |
In lugnet.loc.us.mn.msp, John Neal writes:
> "Thomas P. Rafert" wrote:
> <much snipped>
> >
> > I was wondering how may ways you could arrange those modules. As I • understand the
> > tables are 30x45 (or larger), does the track come out in the same place on • *each*
> > module? It didn't look that way but just wondering.
>
> Actually, yes the track pops out at exactly the same place on every module, 2 • studs in
> for the outside loop, and another 4 studs in after that for the second loop.
John, you've got that backwards. 4 studs to the outside track, 2 studs
between the tracks. (And 20 bricks + 1 plate above the baseplates! <grin>)
<much more snipped>
J1
|
|
| |
John Gerlach wrote:
>
Oops. Yeah, well, waddya expect-- I'm just a rookie...d:-)
-J2
> John, you've got that backwards. 4 studs to the outside track, 2 studs
> between the tracks. (And 20 bricks + 1 plate above the baseplates! <grin>)
>
> <much more snipped>
>
> J1
|
|
| |
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> Yes, he is truly a unique human being. One of the kindest, gentlest,
> most laid back dudes I have ever been privileged to know. Other people
> do contribute significantly, though not to the same scale. I think John
> Gerlach has well north of 2000 invested in just filling in gaps that
> needed to be filled when Conan was short of something, and several
> members, as John N said, have *A* module under construction for use in
> shows. But Conan has 16!
But you still have to have an even number of modules, right? So "A"
module
under construction will only replace one of Conan's modules until
another
module can be paired with it?
--
Paul Foster
http://reality.sgi.com/foster_stco/lego.html
|
|
| |
Paul Foster wrote:
>
> But you still have to have an even number of modules, right? So "A"
> module
> under construction will only replace one of Conan's modules until
> another
> module can be paired with it?
Yes, unless one built some sort of "wye" module, all the modules in use
must form a single closed loop (in the meta sense) to allow continuous
running.
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
- This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
|
|
|
