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> > > My colleague, Jan Beyer has asked me to pass along word of something • cool
> > > he's working on.
> >
> >
> > The software allowed is a big question.
>
>
> Programming environment sounds easy to me: You get a mindstorms set you have
> to use. Would say to me you have to program it with the software delivered
> in the set...
Yes, that sounds easy. But keep in mind Pitsco sells the Mindstorms set with
RoboLab software. And, looking around at Lego.com, you can find LEGO's own
text-based programming language, Mindscript, available for download.
Most AFoLs seem to use NQC or some other programming software.
It really doesn't make too much difference to me what software is allowed, as long
as we know in advance.
Steve
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I got answers to a some of the questions we've been asking from Jan Beyer about
the contest.
Question: There seems to be two aspects to the competition. You mention
registration is required by February "so you can work at home", as well as an
event on the weekend in Billund. Can you give more details about this? What
will the 'at home' aspect be? What is the championship about if you can do stuff
at home beforehand?
Answer: With this we mean you will get the task/layout from the tournament in
Billund about 1-2 weeks before the tournament, so you can start to design a
robot at home but you are not allowed to take the home designed robot with you
to Billund and use this one. You have to build a new one in Billund but perhaps
you can use some ideas from the time you have try to find a solution to solve
the task at home.
Question: What programming environments will be allowed? Will computers be
provided? Or do we need to bring our own laptops? Can we bring our own
laptops/programming environments even if computers ARE provided?
Answer: All programmes will be allowed and you have to bring your own laptop.
Question: You say that we'll have a Mindstorm's set available, and it sounds
like other pieces will also be available. Can you be more specific about what
other parts might be available? Will batteries be provided? Will we have fresh
batteries available for the tournament?
Answer: You will get a standard Mindstorms Set to build your robot, but you can
also a prize for the best robot design, so there will normal LEGO Parts
available you can use for design purposes. And there will be batteries too.
All teams will get some equipment the following parts:
1 RCX, 3 motors, 2 light sensors, 2 pressure sensors and 1 rotation sensor
[I take it that this means besides the standard Mindstorms set, we get an extra
motor, extra light sensor, 2 pressure sensors (!) and a rotation sensor, plus a
variety of 'normal' bricks for decorating our robots. I wonder what the pressure
sensors will be? Normally I'd consider these to be for pneumatics, but pneumatic
parts don't come with a Mindstorms set.]
Question: On Sunday there is a 'fine tuning' session. How much rebuilding is
allowed during this time? Will access to all the parts be available? Will the
arena be available?
Answer: You can rebuild your robot as much as you want and yes, the parts will
be available and you will have access to the arena.
Question: You say you need a minimum of 6 teams. Is there a maximum? What if 20
teams register, for example? That would make time on the arena very scarce, not
to mention giving only an hour to run the tournament on Sunday.
Answer: Honestly we have not counted on that there will be register so many
teams but if there are so many interested teams we will see at this time if we
need more time or do a second event.
--
David Schilling
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David,
I think by pressure sensors they mean touch sensors.
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: news-gateway@lugnet.com [mailto:news-gateway@lugnet.com] On Behalf Of
David Schilling
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 1:41 PM
To: lego-robotics@crynwr.com
Subject: Re: AFOLs and Mindstorms
I got answers to a some of the questions we've been asking from Jan Beyer
about
the contest.
Question: There seems to be two aspects to the competition. You mention
registration is required by February "so you can work at home", as well as
an
event on the weekend in Billund. Can you give more details about this? What
will the 'at home' aspect be? What is the championship about if you can do
stuff
at home beforehand?
Answer: With this we mean you will get the task/layout from the tournament
in
Billund about 1-2 weeks before the tournament, so you can start to design a
robot at home but you are not allowed to take the home designed robot with
you
to Billund and use this one. You have to build a new one in Billund but
perhaps
you can use some ideas from the time you have try to find a solution to
solve
the task at home.
Question: What programming environments will be allowed? Will computers be
provided? Or do we need to bring our own laptops? Can we bring our own
laptops/programming environments even if computers ARE provided?
Answer: All programmes will be allowed and you have to bring your own
laptop.
Question: You say that we'll have a Mindstorm's set available, and it sounds
like other pieces will also be available. Can you be more specific about
what
other parts might be available? Will batteries be provided? Will we have
fresh
batteries available for the tournament?
Answer: You will get a standard Mindstorms Set to build your robot, but you
can
also a prize for the best robot design, so there will normal LEGO Parts
available you can use for design purposes. And there will be batteries too.
All teams will get some equipment the following parts:
1 RCX, 3 motors, 2 light sensors, 2 pressure sensors and 1 rotation sensor
[I take it that this means besides the standard Mindstorms set, we get an
extra
motor, extra light sensor, 2 pressure sensors (!) and a rotation sensor,
plus a
variety of 'normal' bricks for decorating our robots. I wonder what the
pressure
sensors will be? Normally I'd consider these to be for pneumatics, but
pneumatic
parts don't come with a Mindstorms set.]
Question: On Sunday there is a 'fine tuning' session. How much rebuilding is
allowed during this time? Will access to all the parts be available? Will
the
arena be available?
Answer: You can rebuild your robot as much as you want and yes, the parts
will
be available and you will have access to the arena.
Question: You say you need a minimum of 6 teams. Is there a maximum? What if
20
teams register, for example? That would make time on the arena very scarce,
not
to mention giving only an hour to run the tournament on Sunday.
Answer: Honestly we have not counted on that there will be register so many
teams but if there are so many interested teams we will see at this time if
we
need more time or do a second event.
--
David Schilling
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> Question: You say that we'll have a Mindstorm's set available, and it sounds
> like other pieces will also be available. Can you be more specific about what
> other parts might be available? Will batteries be provided? Will we have fresh
> batteries available for the tournament?
>
> Answer: You will get a standard Mindstorms Set to build your robot, but you can
> also a prize for the best robot design, so there will normal LEGO Parts
> available you can use for design purposes. And there will be batteries too.
>
> All teams will get some equipment the following parts:
>
> 1 RCX, 3 motors, 2 light sensors, 2 pressure sensors and 1 rotation sensor
>
> [I take it that this means besides the standard Mindstorms set, we get an extra
> motor, extra light sensor, 2 pressure sensors (!) and a rotation sensor, plus a
> variety of 'normal' bricks for decorating our robots. I wonder what the pressure
> sensors will be? Normally I'd consider these to be for pneumatics, but pneumatic
> parts don't come with a Mindstorms set.]
How about 2 "Touch" sensors? I thought the same thing, the first time I read it
(when Jan replied to my e-mail, earlier today :)
Steve
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In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
> Question: What programming environments will be allowed? Will computers be
> provided? Or do we need to bring our own laptops? Can we bring our own
> laptops/programming environments even if computers ARE provided?
>
> Answer: All programmes will be allowed and you have to bring your own laptop.
Huh. They might want to clarify/restrict that, just a bit. Unless they really
mean for people to write all their code ahead of time, and bring it with them.
Steve
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In lugnet.robotics, Scott Davis wrote:
> David,
> I think by pressure sensors they mean touch sensors.
>
>
> Scott
Oh, that makes sense. I guess I was too excited about the possibility of a new
sensor that I overlooked the obvious!
--
David Schilling
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> In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
> > Question: What programming environments will be allowed? Will computers be
> > provided? Or do we need to bring our own laptops? Can we bring our own
> > laptops/programming environments even if computers ARE provided?
> >
> > Answer: All programmes will be allowed and you have to bring your own laptop.
>
> Huh. They might want to clarify/restrict that, just a bit. Unless they really
> mean for people to write all their code ahead of time, and bring it with them.
The main thing is that it's even for everyone. Allowing everyone to bring
pre-written code is fair. On the other hand, not allowing anyone to bring
pre-written code would also be fair. It kind of comes down to how they want to
organize the event.
Steve
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In lugnet.lego, Steve Bliss wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
> > Question: What programming environments will be allowed? Will computers be
> > provided? Or do we need to bring our own laptops? Can we bring our own
> > laptops/programming environments even if computers ARE provided?
> >
> > Answer: All programmes will be allowed and you have to bring your own laptop.
>
> Huh. They might want to clarify/restrict that, just a bit. Unless they really
> mean for people to write all their code ahead of time, and bring it with them.
>
> Steve
Three hours for building and programming is *extremely* tight, even with a
second two hour session the next day if everything had to be done from scratch.
I've run a couple of competitions that way, but only because more time wasn't
available. The number one request by virtually everyone who has participated is
"Need More Time!" So perhaps allowing you to use code you've already written
isn't such a bad idea.
I was under the impression from Jake's initial post that we wouldn't know ahead
of time what the challenge was and would only be told at the event where we then
have to build a robot from scratch. ("Saturday ... 15:00 The challenge is
announced".) Sort of like the BrickHeap Wars that I've run a number of times. I
thought there'd be a simpler challenge as the 'at home' one, that would warm us
up for the final 'real' one. But it sounds like we could almost just memorize
what we've built before, and rebuild it at the event. In that case, you reusing
code you've already written doesn't sound like so much of a stretch.
But re-reading the original post with the new information in mind, I'm fairly
sure that the event will be very similar to one of the First Lego League events
where there are a dozen or so activities your robot must do. Even if you knew
all the specific activities, since you won't have the actual layout until the
day of the event, there will still be SOME programming that will have to be
done. And quite possibly even the robot you built at home won't work on the
final layout because of some differences that you didn't expect.
--
David Schilling
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In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
> In lugnet.lego, Steve Bliss wrote:
> > In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
> > > Question: What programming environments will be allowed? Will computers be
> > > provided? Or do we need to bring our own laptops? Can we bring our own
> > > laptops/programming environments even if computers ARE provided?
> > >
> > > Answer: All programmes will be allowed and you have to bring your own laptop.
> >
> > Huh. They might want to clarify/restrict that, just a bit. Unless they really
> > mean for people to write all their code ahead of time, and bring it with them.
> >
> > Steve
>
> Three hours for building and programming is *extremely* tight, even with a
> second two hour session the next day if everything had to be done from scratch.
> I've run a couple of competitions that way, but only because more time wasn't
> available. The number one request by virtually everyone who has participated is
> "Need More Time!" So perhaps allowing you to use code you've already written
> isn't such a bad idea.
>
> I was under the impression from Jake's initial post that we wouldn't know ahead
> of time what the challenge was and would only be told at the event where we then
> have to build a robot from scratch. ("Saturday ... 15:00 The challenge is
> announced".) Sort of like the BrickHeap Wars that I've run a number of times. I
> thought there'd be a simpler challenge as the 'at home' one, that would warm us
> up for the final 'real' one. But it sounds like we could almost just memorize
> what we've built before, and rebuild it at the event. In that case, you reusing
> code you've already written doesn't sound like so much of a stretch.
>
> But re-reading the original post with the new information in mind, I'm fairly
> sure that the event will be very similar to one of the First Lego League events
> where there are a dozen or so activities your robot must do. Even if you knew
> all the specific activities, since you won't have the actual layout until the
> day of the event, there will still be SOME programming that will have to be
> done. And quite possibly even the robot you built at home won't work on the
> final layout because of some differences that you didn't expect.
Sorry for taking so long to follow-up on this!
A few answers from Jan:
The Programming environment: You will get a normal Mindstorms set from us, the
latest version.
Software: see above, normal LEGO Mindstorms Software
Jake
---
Jake McKee
Community Liaison
LEGO Community Development
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> In lugnet.lego, David Schilling wrote:
> But re-reading the original post with the new information in mind, I'm fairly
> sure that the event will be very similar to one of the First Lego League events
> where there are a dozen or so activities your robot must do. Even if you knew
> all the specific activities, since you won't have the actual layout until the
> day of the event, there will still be SOME programming that will have to be
> done. And quite possibly even the robot you built at home won't work on the
> final layout because of some differences that you didn't expect.
I'll bet the rules are still subject to change. If anyone has an opinion, about
what would be better, they should express it to Jake and Jan
Steve
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