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Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.general
Followup-To: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Mon, 15 May 2000 13:56:11 GMT
Viewed: 
1885 times
  
In lugnet.general, Rich Manzo writes:
  This is making me sick. Lego went out of their way to give us a little

Well, aside from the fact that you're fantasizing about the motivation or
intent behind the placement of the LUGNET logo...

Trademarks are a serious thing.  If you don't vigorously protect your
trademarks you risk losing them.  Just because you don't think it is important
doesn't mean it isn't.

  Yes I agree that there should have been a URL or TM but the legal crowd
here needs to take a back seat and appreciate all the progress we have made in
our relationship with the company that creates the toys that we all love.

The "legal crowd"?  How about the thinking crowd?

And exactly what progress has been made in our relationship with the company
that makes the toys we love and has, until very recently, ignored us and
treated us like we didn't matter?

Oh yeah, I forgot, one person from their company has posted what, a total of 4
or 5 messages here, dropped out of site for weeks at a time after making
mostly vague flattering statements about how much they want to work with us
and promises about Lego Direct.  Is that the progress you're talking about?
Pardon me if I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards a company that has had
its head in the sand for the last 10 years.


Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Mon, 15 May 2000 14:07:39 GMT
Viewed: 
1688 times
  
In lugnet.general, Mike Stanley writes:
In lugnet.general, Rich Manzo writes:
  This is making me sick. Lego went out of their way to give us a little

Well, aside from the fact that you're fantasizing about the motivation or
intent behind the placement of the LUGNET logo...

Trademarks are a serious thing.  If you don't vigorously protect your
trademarks you risk losing them.  Just because you don't think it is important
doesn't mean it isn't.

  Yes I agree that there should have been a URL or TM but the legal crowd
here needs to take a back seat and appreciate all the progress we have made • in
our relationship with the company that creates the toys that we all love.

The "legal crowd"?  How about the thinking crowd?


This is a good point. These days, within society as a whole, people are too
concerned about staying within the law (often just within the law). I think one
can be inside the law - but still be morally wrong. If "thinking people", as
Mike puts it, are those who are concerned with rights and wrongs, rather than
illegalities and legalities of a situation - I'll join that club.

Whatever the law says on this thing - TLC/G were wrong not to credit Todd… just
imagine if it was the Coca Cola Logo!

Scott A



And exactly what progress has been made in our relationship with the company
that makes the toys we love and has, until very recently, ignored us and
treated us like we didn't matter?

Oh yeah, I forgot, one person from their company has posted what, a total of 4
or 5 messages here, dropped out of site for weeks at a time after making
mostly vague flattering statements about how much they want to work with us
and promises about Lego Direct.  Is that the progress you're talking about?
Pardon me if I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards a company that has had
its head in the sand for the last 10 years.


Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Mon, 15 May 2000 14:37:36 GMT
Viewed: 
1731 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:

Whatever the law says on this thing - TLC/G were wrong not to credit Todd…
just imagine if it was the Coca Cola Logo!

  Agreed!  I was wondering, though; does the Mania magazine have anything like
a general Trademark disclaimer?  I've read other magazines that say something
like "individual trademarks are held by their respective owners, and their
mention here should not be construed as a challenge to their status."
  My question is more for my own curiosity than for the situation at hand--I
agree absolutely that appropriate credit should have been given.

     Dave!


Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Mon, 15 May 2000 19:03:18 GMT
Viewed: 
1739 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:

Whatever the law says on this thing - TLC/G were wrong not to credit Todd…
just imagine if it was the Coca Cola Logo!

Agreed!  I was wondering, though; does the Mania magazine have anything like
a general Trademark disclaimer?  I've read other magazines that say something
like "individual trademarks are held by their respective owners, and their
mention here should not be construed as a challenge to their status."
My question is more for my own curiosity than for the situation at hand--I
agree absolutely that appropriate credit should have been given.

    Dave!

I haven't seen one, but I don't think anyone would have recognized as needing
a trademark or I don't think it would have appeared at all.  I'm pretty sure
most people at Lego didn't make the connection at all or even know our
existence.

I think it was probably an "easter egg" put in by an artist who is probably
lurking here and his higher ups never even thought that it was a logo for
anything.  Your probably thinking, "Why wouldn't this person have told us?"
I can tell you why...everyone would always be bugging them about "the inside
scoop."  We're a pretty hardcore group here and I think that the person would
always be under pressure to cough up some more info for us.  I'm actually
thankful about how it appeared as all of a sudden a bunch of our bandwidth
hasn't been sucked dry by a bunch of kids looking around.  Besides anyone
smart could find Lugnet by using a search engine to find us anyway.

Also, if your thinking TLC is going to "officially acknowledge" this site,
your out of your mind.  I would bet that is why there was talk of anonamously
donating to us.  TLC doesn't own this site and can't control the content,
that's Todd's call.  I do contracts for a living and I can tell you that you
can bet that both TLC and Lucas have huge contracts to limit their liability
in the case that one of the "partners" heads in a bad direction.  I mean there
is nothing that keeps Todd from running a LUGNET ad in a magazine and changing
the whole site to a gigantic toy store that handles competitors blocks too the
next day.

That being said, my opinion remains that it was an unauthorized usage by a fan
of this site who was trying to put something in just for us.  You can bet that
if TLC hand known anything about it, it would have been Lego's logo.

Matt


Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Mon, 15 May 2000 19:29:40 GMT
Viewed: 
1693 times
  
In lugnet.general, Mike Stanley writes:
In lugnet.general, Rich Manzo writes:
  This is making me sick. Lego went out of their way to give us a little

Well, aside from the fact that you're fantasizing about the motivation or
intent behind the placement of the LUGNET logo...

Trademarks are a serious thing.  If you don't vigorously protect your
trademarks you risk losing them.  Just because you don't think it is important
doesn't mean it isn't.

  Yes I agree that there should have been a URL or TM but the legal crowd
here needs to take a back seat and appreciate all the progress we have made • in
our relationship with the company that creates the toys that we all love.

The "legal crowd"?  How about the thinking crowd?

And exactly what progress has been made in our relationship with the company
that makes the toys we love and has, until very recently, ignored us and
treated us like we didn't matter?

Thats right. They did ignore the online LEGO community for a very long time,
but now thet are not. I good example of this is the fact that the LUGNET logo
is in the Mania Magazine.

Oh yeah, I forgot, one person from their company has posted what, a total of 4
or 5 messages here, dropped out of site for weeks at a time after making
mostly vague flattering statements about how much they want to work with us
and promises about Lego Direct.  Is that the progress you're talking about?
Pardon me if I'm taking a wait and see attitude towards a company that has had
its head in the sand for the last 10 years.

  Yes that is the progress I am talking about. They did ignore the online LEGO
for a very long time. But they put the logo in their magazine so apparently we
are not totally ignored anymore. That is why I am happy that they put the logo
in that small monitor, it tells me that we are not ignored anymore.

   Look, the bottom line is that they were wrong to put the logo in there
without the proper disclaimer or TM but lets not go crazy over this. They put
that logo in there to tell us that they know we are here, not to create an
advertisement for LUGNET, which a disclaimer would have done. I believe
somebody in this thread mentioned that they could have made a broad disclaimer
like "all trademarks are the properties of their owners". That would have been
a good idea. But unfortunately they did not. So let me ask the group, what
action do you think should be taken? Should we let it go? Should Todd demand a
written apology? Or should we go even further than that? I would like to hear
the group’s opinion on this.

-Rich


Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Tue, 16 May 2000 00:38:58 GMT
Viewed: 
1722 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Rich Manzo writes:

Thats right. They did ignore the online LEGO community for a very long time,
but now thet are not. I good example of this is the fact that the LUGNET logo
is in the Mania Magazine.

I guess if that's all it takes (for you) to have them make up for years of
blowing us off, you must be pretty happy.

Yes that is the progress I am talking about. They did ignore the online LEGO
for a very long time. But they put the logo in their magazine so apparently we
are not totally ignored anymore. That is why I am happy that they put the logo
in that small monitor, it tells me that we are not ignored anymore.

Does it?  Exactly who in TLC/TLG contacted you to explain the purpose behind
having that there.  I gotta tell you, I'm leaning towards the lone peon
graphic artist throwing it in there for the heck of it theory, but even if
that is or is not the case, I don't think your rosy interpretation holds any
more water than some of the doom and gloom ones.

In other words, I don't interpret the placing of that logo as being
significant or indicative of some massive swing in how they're going to be
treating us.  It's a tiny image on a tiny page and I think interpreting it as
some sort of "hey guys - we think you're cool and we want to treat you right"
message is silly.

  Look, the bottom line is that they were wrong to put the logo in there
without the proper disclaimer or TM but lets not go crazy over this. They put
that logo in there to tell us that they know we are here, not to create an

How do you know WHY they did it?  I don't think you do.  You may think you
have a theory about it, but you don't know why it happened any more than I
do.  You just seem to be a lot happier about your theory than I am about mine.

a good idea. But unfortunately they did not. So let me ask the group, what
action do you think should be taken? Should we let it go? Should Todd demand a
written apology? Or should we go even further than that? I would like to hear
the group’s opinion on this.

Well, I don't really care what the group's opinion is about this.  WE
shouldn't "go further" at all.  Ultimately its not your (or my) business - it
is Todd & Suz's trademark.  Todd's done something already and not that he
needs my approval or consent, I'm sure he did what he thought best, which is
all that matters.

But I'm still free to complain about it, just like you're still free to paint
this as some sort of earth-shatteringly kind act on their part meant to
indicate how much they love us or something.


Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Tue, 16 May 2000 01:14:42 GMT
Viewed: 
1783 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Stanley writes:
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Rich Manzo writes:


I guess if that's all it takes (for you) to have them make up for years of
blowing us off, you must be pretty happy.

No, but I think it is a step in the right direction.

Does it?  Exactly who in TLC/TLG contacted you to explain the purpose behind
having that there.  I gotta tell you, I'm leaning towards the lone peon
graphic artist throwing it in there for the heck of it theory, but even if
that is or is not the case, I don't think your rosy interpretation holds any
more water than some of the doom and gloom ones.

In other words, I don't interpret the placing of that logo as being
significant or indicative of some massive swing in how they're going to be
treating us.  It's a tiny image on a tiny page and I think interpreting it as
some sort of "hey guys - we think you're cool and we want to treat you right"
message is silly.


How do you know WHY they did it?  I don't think you do.  You may think you
have a theory about it, but you don't know why it happened any more than I
do.  You just seem to be a lot happier about your theory than I am about mine.

  That is right I do not know. Neither do you. Lets wait and see what TLC's
response is.

Well, I don't really care what the group's opinion is about this.  WE
shouldn't "go further" at all.  Ultimately its not your (or my) business - it
is Todd & Suz's trademark.  Todd's done something already and not that he
needs my approval or consent, I'm sure he did what he thought best, which is
all that matters.

Well, I do care what the groups opinion is. It does not mean that Todd or Suz
must accept our opinions.

But I'm still free to complain about it, just like you're still free to paint
this as some sort of earth-shatteringly kind act on their part meant to
indicate how much they love us or something.

Right!

-Rich


Subject: 
Re: This is incredible!
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date: 
Tue, 16 May 2000 11:59:28 GMT
Viewed: 
1774 times
  
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Rich Manzo writes:

Well, I do care what the groups opinion is.

Why? What does it matter what our opinion on this is? It's only tangentially
related to the day to day operation of LUGNET, so let it go.

++Lar


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