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* “Could you please explain why ILTCO is the normal channel for such issues?“ -
Didier Enjary
ILTCO is operated under a democratic process. All 33 member clubs are equally
represented and receive communications at the exactly the same time thru the
mail lists. One of the six ILTCO goals was to provide LEGO a single point of
contact so that LEGO can make announcements, sneak peek pictures, etc. and it
would reach all the clubs and in most cases the general public at the same time.
This is what I mean by "normal channel"
It has been for the last 3 years that the train topic information flowed thru
ILTCO out to the community. I don't see us as being a bottle neck but rather a
conduit, which I hope you all agree with. When Jake left LEGO he seems to have
neglected to reassign his personal contacts in the community (beyond the
Ambassador program) to Jan and Steve. So as a result this information came thru
the Ambassadors.
* "Do you think Eric has overstepped his bounds by launching the save.9vtrains
website?" - Didier Enjary
There are no "bounds" or jurisdiction as far as ILTCO is concerned. ILTCO is
made up of a collection of clubs (Eric's included), so that we can have a
central repository for train related materials (www.ILTCO.org) and a way to
easily communicate with each other (in the form of the Assembly mail list).
Do we need another train web site and discussion form when there is Lugnet and
www.ILTCO.org? I tend to think that fragmenting sub-topics dilutes the message
and lessens the appearance of solidarity of the train AFOLs.
* “Showing support for other forums will go a long way to prove that ILTCO is
not trying to rule the world of LEGO Trains (an image that I know you are trying
to avoid).” - Jude Beaudin
ILTCO has 33 member clubs world wide (330 individual members), all have voting
rights and equal access to posting messages, news items and articles on the web
site. ILTCO is not trying to rule the world but rather be the democratic hot
spot in the center of the train AFOL universe... THIS IS AN IMAGE WE ARE TRYING
TO MAINTAIN!
Hope this helps.
SteveB
ILTCO Goals
The purposes of this Organization shall be:
1. the promotion of good fellowship and communication among LEGO model
railroading enthusiasts; and
2. the promotion and dissemination of knowledge about LEGO model railroading,
through online resources, meetings, publications, and libraries; and
3. the supporting of the formation and growth of LEGO Train Clubs; and
4. the cultivation of L-Gauge as a recognized model railroading hobby standard;
and
5. the establishment of comprehensive communications with The LEGO® Group /
LEGO® Direct, NMRA, hobby publishers, train show organizers, and the like; and
6. the representation of the interests and concerns of the LEGO Train community.
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In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
> * "Do you think Eric has overstepped his bounds by launching the save.9vtrains
> website?" - Didier Enjary
> There are no "bounds" or jurisdiction as far as ILTCO is concerned. ILTCO is
> made up of a collection of clubs (Eric's included), so that we can have a
> central repository for train related materials (www.ILTCO.org) and a way to
> easily communicate with each other (in the form of the Assembly mail list).
>
> Do we need another train web site and discussion form when there is Lugnet and
> www.ILTCO.org? I tend to think that fragmenting sub-topics dilutes the message
> and lessens the appearance of solidarity of the train AFOLs.
Not that I feel like I have to justify my actions but this single issue is so
big that I thought it needed its own forum for organizing and making our case.
The site has little to do with LUGNET, we arn't going to post MOC's. We are
trying to save what may be one of the most important productlines for the AFOL
community. It also is not in competition with ILTCO. It is not about
organizing the community or setting standards or releasing new products. It's
sole purpose is attempting to save the line.
What happens to the site when the final decision has been made by LEGO? I can't
honestly say, it hasn't even crossed my mind. Maybe it will continue on in some
form or maybe it will just cease to exist.
I understand that all Train fans want 9v saved. I also understand that ILTCO
would like to save 9v trains as one of its missions. All I wanted was a site
that was completely, 100% focused on that one task. I would like to include
everyone that has an interest in 9v trains. If I can't do that I will be
disappointed but it won't diminish my desire to save 9v trains.
-Eric Kingsley
http://save.9vtrains.com/
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I think this is a great thing that Eric has taken on.
Someone needs to get the ball rolling, and he appears to be doing just that.
As far as ILTCO goes, what exactly is the status of things there?
There doesn't ever really seem to be anything going on there. I am the rep for
NELUG, and have access to most of the mailing lists, but quite frankly, it's
quite stagnant over there. There haven't been posts on most lists for months,
some years, and it makes me wonder, what IS the purpose of ILTCO?
All we hear about is that things are being worked on "behind the scenes" and
that when it can be shared with us it will be, but that time never seems to
come. I know there are NDA's and all that, but if ILTCO wants to be the focal
point for the community, then this stuff needs to come through faster than the
trickle we seem to get.
So if information is able to be given out through other means than "normal
channels" I say, let's take that information, and do with it what we can,
because I have the feeling we would be seeing plastic track on the store shelves
long before we got any information through "normal channels"
Tom D
In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
> * “Could you please explain why ILTCO is the normal channel for such issues?“ -
> Didier Enjary
> ILTCO is operated under a democratic process. All 33 member clubs are equally
> represented and receive communications at the exactly the same time thru the
> mail lists. One of the six ILTCO goals was to provide LEGO a single point of
> contact so that LEGO can make announcements, sneak peek pictures, etc. and it
> would reach all the clubs and in most cases the general public at the same time.
> This is what I mean by "normal channel"
>
> It has been for the last 3 years that the train topic information flowed thru
> ILTCO out to the community. I don't see us as being a bottle neck but rather a
> conduit, which I hope you all agree with. When Jake left LEGO he seems to have
> neglected to reassign his personal contacts in the community (beyond the
> Ambassador program) to Jan and Steve. So as a result this information came thru
> the Ambassadors.
>
>
> * "Do you think Eric has overstepped his bounds by launching the save.9vtrains
> website?" - Didier Enjary
> There are no "bounds" or jurisdiction as far as ILTCO is concerned. ILTCO is
> made up of a collection of clubs (Eric's included), so that we can have a
> central repository for train related materials (www.ILTCO.org) and a way to
> easily communicate with each other (in the form of the Assembly mail list).
>
> Do we need another train web site and discussion form when there is Lugnet and
> www.ILTCO.org? I tend to think that fragmenting sub-topics dilutes the message
> and lessens the appearance of solidarity of the train AFOLs.
>
>
> * “Showing support for other forums will go a long way to prove that ILTCO is
> not trying to rule the world of LEGO Trains (an image that I know you are trying
> to avoid).” - Jude Beaudin
> ILTCO has 33 member clubs world wide (330 individual members), all have voting
> rights and equal access to posting messages, news items and articles on the web
> site. ILTCO is not trying to rule the world but rather be the democratic hot
> spot in the center of the train AFOL universe... THIS IS AN IMAGE WE ARE TRYING
> TO MAINTAIN!
>
> Hope this helps.
> SteveB
>
> ILTCO Goals
> The purposes of this Organization shall be:
>
> 1. the promotion of good fellowship and communication among LEGO model
> railroading enthusiasts; and
>
> 2. the promotion and dissemination of knowledge about LEGO model railroading,
> through online resources, meetings, publications, and libraries; and
>
> 3. the supporting of the formation and growth of LEGO Train Clubs; and
>
> 4. the cultivation of L-Gauge as a recognized model railroading hobby standard;
> and
>
> 5. the establishment of comprehensive communications with The LEGO® Group /
> LEGO® Direct, NMRA, hobby publishers, train show organizers, and the like; and
>
> 6. the representation of the interests and concerns of the LEGO Train community.
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> I think this is a great thing that Eric has taken on.
> Someone needs to get the ball rolling, and he appears to be doing just that.
> As far as ILTCO goes, what exactly is the status of things there?
> There doesn't ever really seem to be anything going on there. I am the rep for
> NELUG, and have access to most of the mailing lists, but quite frankly, it's
> quite stagnant over there. There haven't been posts on most lists for months,
> some years, and it makes me wonder, what IS the purpose of ILTCO?
> All we hear about is that things are being worked on "behind the scenes" and
> that when it can be shared with us it will be, but that time never seems to
> come. I know there are NDA's and all that, but if ILTCO wants to be the focal
> point for the community, then this stuff needs to come through faster than the
> trickle we seem to get.
> So if information is able to be given out through other means than "normal
> channels" I say, let's take that information, and do with it what we can,
> because I have the feeling we would be seeing plastic track on the store shelves
> long before we got any information through "normal channels"
>
>
> Tom D
>
> In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
> > * “Could you please explain why ILTCO is the normal channel for such issues?“ -
> > Didier Enjary
> > ILTCO is operated under a democratic process. All 33 member clubs are equally
> > represented and receive communications at the exactly the same time thru the
> > mail lists. One of the six ILTCO goals was to provide LEGO a single point of
> > contact so that LEGO can make announcements, sneak peek pictures, etc. and it
> > would reach all the clubs and in most cases the general public at the same time.
> > This is what I mean by "normal channel"
> >
> > It has been for the last 3 years that the train topic information flowed thru
> > ILTCO out to the community. I don't see us as being a bottle neck but rather a
> > conduit, which I hope you all agree with. When Jake left LEGO he seems to have
> > neglected to reassign his personal contacts in the community (beyond the
> > Ambassador program) to Jan and Steve. So as a result this information came thru
> > the Ambassadors.
> >
> >
> > * "Do you think Eric has overstepped his bounds by launching the save.9vtrains
> > website?" - Didier Enjary
> > There are no "bounds" or jurisdiction as far as ILTCO is concerned. ILTCO is
> > made up of a collection of clubs (Eric's included), so that we can have a
> > central repository for train related materials (www.ILTCO.org) and a way to
> > easily communicate with each other (in the form of the Assembly mail list).
> >
> > Do we need another train web site and discussion form when there is Lugnet and
> > www.ILTCO.org? I tend to think that fragmenting sub-topics dilutes the message
> > and lessens the appearance of solidarity of the train AFOLs.
> >
> >
> > * “Showing support for other forums will go a long way to prove that ILTCO is
> > not trying to rule the world of LEGO Trains (an image that I know you are trying
> > to avoid).” - Jude Beaudin
> > ILTCO has 33 member clubs world wide (330 individual members), all have voting
> > rights and equal access to posting messages, news items and articles on the web
> > site. ILTCO is not trying to rule the world but rather be the democratic hot
> > spot in the center of the train AFOL universe... THIS IS AN IMAGE WE ARE TRYING
> > TO MAINTAIN!
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> > SteveB
> >
> > ILTCO Goals
> > The purposes of this Organization shall be:
> >
> > 1. the promotion of good fellowship and communication among LEGO model
> > railroading enthusiasts; and
> >
> > 2. the promotion and dissemination of knowledge about LEGO model railroading,
> > through online resources, meetings, publications, and libraries; and
> >
> > 3. the supporting of the formation and growth of LEGO Train Clubs; and
> >
> > 4. the cultivation of L-Gauge as a recognized model railroading hobby standard;
> > and
> >
> > 5. the establishment of comprehensive communications with The LEGO® Group /
> > LEGO® Direct, NMRA, hobby publishers, train show organizers, and the like; and
> >
> > 6. the representation of the interests and concerns of the LEGO Train community.
Steve, thank you for your answer. This discussion makes stuffs clearier.
You know I'm a true ILTCO supporter. I deeply hope the way you (we) see ILTCO
will become reality, and yes some very good things have been accomplished yet.
But Tom is right : ILTCO doesn't work as it should and that is, IMHO, a
communication issue. ILTCO is perceived as not being active !
I say perceived.
Another point :
As an LA, I'm now aware that people under NDA over-censored themselves. (Signal
Trains members , LAs, MPD guys)
They no more dare to share ideas and prefer start thread that might or should be
public (or at least open at large) on private groups. ILTCO, Lugnet, and other
places suffers from this. That's a guess, that's my opinion.
The way I see this community has always been to share ideas and to connect
people. ILTCO is part of this.
Didier
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In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
> ILTCO is operated under a democratic process. All 33
> member clubs are equally represented and receive
> communications at the exactly the same time thru the
> mail lists. One of the six ILTCO goals was to provide
> LEGO a single point of contact so that LEGO can make
> announcements, sneak peek pictures, etc. and it would
> reach all the clubs and in most cases the general
> public at the same time...
But this is ILTCO's biggest problem. It's only got one mailing list and it's
full of chatter; either trivial analysis or a few club members discussing
something and broadcasting it to all members. That's why most people turn the
mailing off, because it's 99% irrelevant. As a member, the only news I see from
ILTCO now is when another member posts it on LUGNET.
> It has been for the last 3 years that the train topic
> information flowed thru ILTCO out to the community. I
> don't see us as being a bottle neck but rather a
> conduit, which I hope you all agree with...
If you're looking for a simile I'd say it's more like a leaky tap that you can't
turn off, so you either get flooded or you have to go and turn it off at the
source...
What it needs is a proper discussion board you can dip into to look at what you
want, when you want. And a separately controllable mailing list for official
news and announcements.
> There are no "bounds" or jurisdiction as far as ILTCO
> is concerned. ILTCO is made up of a collection of clubs
> (Eric's included), so that we can have a central
> repository for train related materials (www.ILTCO.org)
> and a way to easily communicate with each other (in the
> form of the Assembly mail list)...
But there is, of a sort. The membership is largely all the American train
clubs, and a few others. Its contacts were forged with Lego in the US. To the
rest of the world (particularly those who don't primarily speak English), it's
just another club.
> Do we need another train web site and discussion form
> when there is Lugnet and www.ILTCO.org? I tend to think
> that fragmenting sub-topics dilutes the message and lessens
> the appearance of solidarity of the train AFOLs.
I'm not going to switch the mailing list back on to discuss this, and the linear
form of LUGNET would just get messy. So, I say go for it. If ILTCO had the
facilities for posting content other than a mailing list, people might use them
- but it doesn't.
> * “Showing support for other forums will go a long way
> to prove that ILTCO is not trying to rule the world of
> LEGO Trains (an image that I know you are trying to
> avoid).” - Jude Beaudin
> ILTCO has 33 member clubs world wide (330 individual
> members), all have voting rights and equal access to
> posting messages, news items and articles on the web
> site. ILTCO is not trying to rule the world but rather
> be the democratic hot spot in the center of the train
> AFOL universe... THIS IS AN IMAGE WE ARE TRYING
> TO MAINTAIN!
www.ILTCO.org looks to me like a file repository and a few mailing list
controls. Where's the community? I don't care that everyone has equal voting
rights, freedom of speech, all that rubbish. Let everyone say whatever they
feel like. But please don't pump it all thorugh the same mailing list. It's a
common mistake that everyone has the right to be heard. You may have the right
to speak, but that doesn't mean everyone should be forced to listen.
Feel free to ignore this message...
Jason Railton
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In lugnet.trains, Tom Duggan wrote:
> I think this is a great thing that Eric has taken on.
> Someone needs to get the ball rolling, and he appears to be doing just that.
> As far as ILTCO goes, what exactly is the status of things there?
> There doesn't ever really seem to be anything going on there. I am the rep for
> NELUG, and have access to most of the mailing lists, but quite frankly, it's
> quite stagnant over there. There haven't been posts on most lists for months,
> some years, and it makes me wonder, what IS the purpose of ILTCO?
> All we hear about is that things are being worked on "behind the scenes" and
> that when it can be shared with us it will be, but that time never seems to
> come. I know there are NDA's and all that, but if ILTCO wants to be the focal
> point for the community, then this stuff needs to come through faster than the
> trickle we seem to get.
> So if information is able to be given out through other means than "normal
> channels" I say, let's take that information, and do with it what we can,
> because I have the feeling we would be seeing plastic track on the store shelves
> long before we got any information through "normal channels"
>
>
> Tom D
>
> In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
> > * “Could you please explain why ILTCO is the normal channel for such issues?“ -
> > Didier Enjary
> > ILTCO is operated under a democratic process. All 33 member clubs are equally
> > represented and receive communications at the exactly the same time thru the
> > mail lists. One of the six ILTCO goals was to provide LEGO a single point of
> > contact so that LEGO can make announcements, sneak peek pictures, etc. and it
> > would reach all the clubs and in most cases the general public at the same time.
> > This is what I mean by "normal channel"
> >
> > It has been for the last 3 years that the train topic information flowed thru
> > ILTCO out to the community. I don't see us as being a bottle neck but rather a
> > conduit, which I hope you all agree with. When Jake left LEGO he seems to have
> > neglected to reassign his personal contacts in the community (beyond the
> > Ambassador program) to Jan and Steve. So as a result this information came thru
> > the Ambassadors.
> >
> >
> > * "Do you think Eric has overstepped his bounds by launching the save.9vtrains
> > website?" - Didier Enjary
> > There are no "bounds" or jurisdiction as far as ILTCO is concerned. ILTCO is
> > made up of a collection of clubs (Eric's included), so that we can have a
> > central repository for train related materials (www.ILTCO.org) and a way to
> > easily communicate with each other (in the form of the Assembly mail list).
> >
> > Do we need another train web site and discussion form when there is Lugnet and
> > www.ILTCO.org? I tend to think that fragmenting sub-topics dilutes the message
> > and lessens the appearance of solidarity of the train AFOLs.
> >
> >
> > * “Showing support for other forums will go a long way to prove that ILTCO is
> > not trying to rule the world of LEGO Trains (an image that I know you are trying
> > to avoid).” - Jude Beaudin
> > ILTCO has 33 member clubs world wide (330 individual members), all have voting
> > rights and equal access to posting messages, news items and articles on the web
> > site. ILTCO is not trying to rule the world but rather be the democratic hot
> > spot in the center of the train AFOL universe... THIS IS AN IMAGE WE ARE TRYING
> > TO MAINTAIN!
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> > SteveB
> >
> > ILTCO Goals
> > The purposes of this Organization shall be:
> >
> > 1. the promotion of good fellowship and communication among LEGO model
> > railroading enthusiasts; and
> >
> > 2. the promotion and dissemination of knowledge about LEGO model railroading,
> > through online resources, meetings, publications, and libraries; and
> >
> > 3. the supporting of the formation and growth of LEGO Train Clubs; and
> >
> > 4. the cultivation of L-Gauge as a recognized model railroading hobby standard;
> > and
> >
> > 5. the establishment of comprehensive communications with The LEGO® Group /
> > LEGO® Direct, NMRA, hobby publishers, train show organizers, and the like; and
> >
> > 6. the representation of the interests and concerns of the LEGO Train community.
"My name is Rich, and I'm a LEGO lurker."
How about ILTCO asking LEGO to throw us all a bone by offering one of those
ILTCO only catalog codes that gives some great discount on some set(s) like
they've done in the past? This would be a quick indicator to LEGO how rabid we
are out here. LEGO could invest a few dollars (through the discount) before they
mistakenly walk away from a product line.
There are a handful of posters to these forums, there are gazillions (that's
right!) of lurkers....
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I hear some of you saying that there are certain expectations of ILTCO that
aren't being met. I also assume that you might be picking up on my frustration
but it isn't pointed at any one person. So let me try to explain how I see ILTCO
helping the community.
ILTCO is a concept, for the people by the people... Frustration 1 is that I keep
hearing that ILTCO is NOT doing this or that... and my replies are always the
same... Then do it! There is no "ILTCO" as in ILTCO needs to do this or that.
The executive committee is in place not to tell anyone what to do but to
facilitate the processes of excepting new members etc...
Sometimes I think of ILTCO as a phone company and library, and you normally
don't expect the operator to call you at home to chat or the librarian to write
the books.
So good luck with everyone’s endeavors, if anyone believes that they can use
ILTCO to facilitate positive community events or standards or whatever please,
take advantage of the infrastructure that is in place.
For instance I think that telling LEGO how we feel about 9v train (more
specifically metal rails and motors) is vital. I think that a post from Eric to
the Assemble mail list inviting each club to write up a paragraph or two about
how this will impact them is a great use of the infrastructure.
However you guys facilitate the "Save the 9v" is great and needed.
Thanks for understanding,
SteveB
PS Sorry if this is scater brained I'm a bit busy at work today.
In lugnet.trains, Eric Kingsley wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
>
> > * "Do you think Eric has overstepped his bounds by launching the save.9vtrains
> > website?" - Didier Enjary
> > There are no "bounds" or jurisdiction as far as ILTCO is concerned. ILTCO is
> > made up of a collection of clubs (Eric's included), so that we can have a
> > central repository for train related materials (www.ILTCO.org) and a way to
> > easily communicate with each other (in the form of the Assembly mail list).
> >
> > Do we need another train web site and discussion form when there is Lugnet and
> > www.ILTCO.org? I tend to think that fragmenting sub-topics dilutes the message
> > and lessens the appearance of solidarity of the train AFOLs.
>
>
> Not that I feel like I have to justify my actions but this single issue is so
> big that I thought it needed its own forum for organizing and making our case.
> The site has little to do with LUGNET, we arn't going to post MOC's. We are
> trying to save what may be one of the most important productlines for the AFOL
> community. It also is not in competition with ILTCO. It is not about
> organizing the community or setting standards or releasing new products. It's
> sole purpose is attempting to save the line.
>
> What happens to the site when the final decision has been made by LEGO? I can't
> honestly say, it hasn't even crossed my mind. Maybe it will continue on in some
> form or maybe it will just cease to exist.
>
> I understand that all Train fans want 9v saved. I also understand that ILTCO
> would like to save 9v trains as one of its missions. All I wanted was a site
> that was completely, 100% focused on that one task. I would like to include
> everyone that has an interest in 9v trains. If I can't do that I will be
> disappointed but it won't diminish my desire to save 9v trains.
>
>
> -Eric Kingsley
>
> http://save.9vtrains.com/
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In lugnet.trains, Steven Barile wrote:
>
> For instance I think that telling LEGO how we feel about 9v train (more
> specifically metal rails and motors) is vital. I think that a post from Eric to
> the Assemble mail list inviting each club to write up a paragraph or two about
> how this will impact them is a great use of the infrastructure.
I will do this.
>
> However you guys facilitate the "Save the 9v" is great and needed.
Thanks Steve!
-Eric
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