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In lugnet.org.us, Mike Poindexter writes:
> Shiri (and NELUG),
>
> I understand the potential problems of the age issue. I was the captain of
> a tournament paintball team where we had players that were under the age of
> 18. There is a much greater likelihood of injury in paintball than LEGO and
> often times, our tournaments would involve us driving or flying across
> several states to a 3 day event. The age issue was not a problem for
> liability reasons if the parents signed a waiver - similar to school
> parental permission forms for field trips. I would think that if parental
> permission slips are good enough for schools and for our paintball circuit,
> then they should work for NELUG.
I agree 100%.
> The maturity issue is a tougher one, as I went to college and lived in a
> fraternity house. I saw many people who were in their 20's with absolutely
> no maturity. Maturity and age do not go hand in hand and just because a
> person is under 18 doesn't mean they are not mature enough. Many of my most
> responsible players who took things seriously were often 16 to 17 years old.
Excellent point. I can see the same thing in people I know.
I see the liability issue and the maturity issue as the two main factors
here. Liability is legally directly linked to age according to our laws,
maturity does not follow a distinct pattern of age [1].
Liability, as many have said, and as I agree with, can be easily solved by
parent/legal guardian accompaniment, or a waiver from parents. Its a moot
point.
I can see the concern from NELUG (and possibly other groups) on the other side
of the coin, maturity. This is a very legitimate concern. But as many have
pointed out (on both sides of this issue), the person in question, Shiri Dori,
is mature way beyond her years in her interactions in this group, and in
person. If NELUG wants to 'protect' their group fun time from younger,
immature kids who are not interested in the whole _A_FOL side of the
organization, they should consider people under 18 on a case-by-case basis
(group vote?) AFTER the liability issues are cleared.
I don't see this as an issue of liability, it can easily be solved. I do see
NELUG members (with the intention to or not - I'm not passing judgment one way
or another on that) as coming off a tad too arrogant about the rule which
is 'essential to their charter.'
> As for the age issue, when you get to 16, you have a lot of negative peer
> pressure - more than adults get, so a group is more necessary for you than
> for us. Many of them were probably in the dark ages at that time and don't
> understand.
>
> Just because NELUG makes an exception for Shiri doesn't mean they have to
> make an exception for everyone. Make it 18 for the age, with those under 18
> requiring both a parental permission slip and a vote of acceptance from the
> membership. That should keep you from having to put up with a bunch of 13
> year olds running amuck.
>
> I feel for you, Shiri, and hope NELUG comes to their senses on this. It is
> hard to overcome the age prejudice of people, but I am sure you will
> succeed.
I have the exact same sentiments.
A bit of a personal note; I joined what was RTL at the time in November of 96,
and for those who remember me then, I characterized the epitomy of what LUGs
of AFOLs want to avoid in their members. I can say honestly the not-always-
gentle prodding of group members here has helped shape me into how I am today,
both online and in daily interactions with people in real life. In fact, I
have some of the same sentiments that others do when looking at a younger,
significantly less mature person on Lugnet. I consider this issue rather
personal to myself as well, because I just turned 18, and, I'll be joining
NELUG in the fall.
In defense of Shiri again, I have conversed with her online a lot and have
also met her in person on two occasions. One was Brickfest, where we DID
discuss this age rule as applies to NELUG. I was one of the ones she and Jeff
Stembel referred to in their posts as supporting her on this decision.
For the most part, I'm against the age limits alltogether, but do see
legitimately where it would be a concern to have a cutoff. I feel that cutoff
should be based on individual maturity level rather than concrete age.
Right now from following this issue since it was originally brought up, I see
it as NELUG taking their stand, with virtualy everyone else against it.
In the least, I would strongly encourage you to take in Shiri because of her
lack of RL friends due to her being far from home, and her lack of serious
Lego enthusiasts to have regular personal contact with. Like she said, by the
time she's 18, she'll be back in Israel, with few AFOLs to speak of. Shiri is
an exceptional member of the Lugnet community, one which virtually all users
could recognize by name. She is a strong contributor with her leadership in
Castle World, and simple encouragement to all the groups, even well outside
her interest range. (as a spacehead, I'm surprised to see her poke her head
in there from time to time!)
> Mike Poindexter
> (I didn't act like a kid until I was 26!)
Don't stop! ;) See ya on Wednesday Mike...
[1] Yes, it is true that people mature with age, but they can't be plotted
point-for-point and measured from each other. We all know that.
-Tim
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Age limitations
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| (...) That requires us to become judges of character. It's not something I want to get into -- this is supposed to be fun. I can't see how rejecting someone with the words "you're not mature enough" are going to be fun for anyone. Saying "sorry, you (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jul-00, to lugnet.org.us, lugnet.org.us.nelug)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Age limitations
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| Shiri (and NELUG), I understand the potential problems of the age issue. I was the captain of a tournament paintball team where we had players that were under the age of 18. There is a much greater likelihood of injury in paintball than LEGO and (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jul-00, to lugnet.org.us, lugnet.org.us.nelug)
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