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Shiri (and NELUG),
I understand the potential problems of the age issue. I was the captain of
a tournament paintball team where we had players that were under the age of
18. There is a much greater likelihood of injury in paintball than LEGO and
often times, our tournaments would involve us driving or flying across
several states to a 3 day event. The age issue was not a problem for
liability reasons if the parents signed a waiver - similar to school
parental permission forms for field trips. I would think that if parental
permission slips are good enough for schools and for our paintball circuit,
then they should work for NELUG.
The maturity issue is a tougher one, as I went to college and lived in a
fraternity house. I saw many people who were in their 20's with absolutely
no maturity. Maturity and age do not go hand in hand and just because a
person is under 18 doesn't mean they are not mature enough. Many of my most
responsible players who took things seriously were often 16 to 17 years old.
As for the age issue, when you get to 16, you have a lot of negative peer
pressure - more than adults get, so a group is more necessary for you than
for us. Many of them were probably in the dark ages at that time and don't
understand.
Just because NELUG makes an exception for Shiri doesn't mean they have to
make an exception for everyone. Make it 18 for the age, with those under 18
requiring both a parental permission slip and a vote of acceptance from the
membership. That should keep you from having to put up with a bunch of 13
year olds running amuck.
I feel for you, Shiri, and hope NELUG comes to their senses on this. It is
hard to overcome the age prejudice of people, but I am sure you will
succeed.
Mike Poindexter
(I didn't act like a kid until I was 26!)
Shiri Dori <shirid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Fx55Es.84H@lugnet.com...
> Hey all,
>
> I'm posting here to explain my opinion(s) about the age limitation in • NELUG.
> I've talked to many people about my stand on this, especially during and • after
> the WAMALUG Brickfest. Many people there expressed their agreement with • what I
> said, and some people encouraged me to post about it - so here I am.
>
> In case someone missed this, one of NELUG's conditions for membership is • that
> a member must be over 18.
> NELUG has explained their reasons for this, mostly due to liability issues • and
> the fact that "they don't want to baby-sit". That was over 7 months ago. • See
> here.
> http://www.lugnet.com/loc/us/ma/?n=140
>
> Let me give you some background about me here, so you know why I'm • attacking
> this decision.
> I recently turned 16. I've lived in Newton (a Boston suburb) for a year • now.
> As much as I've tried, I do not fit in here. As much as this might seem
> unreasonable, my *only* friends at this point are people I'm corresponding
> with online and/or by phone. Some are friends of mine from Israel, others • are
> AFOLs.
> At this point I'm craving for some human contact. The Brickfest was the • best
> thing that happened to me all year in that I could talk to people who • share
> the love to LEGO, and it was face to face.
>
> It was then when I realized that being kept out of NELUG, I'm missing out • on
> something great. Earlier, I was just disappointed that they don't allow me • to
> participate. But now I feel horrible that I'm missing out, and I'm getting
> more upset of it with every NELUG post.
>
> Up to here the background.
>
> 7 months ago, Eric Kingsley give a few reasons for the age limitations:
> > 1. Legalities - This has been discussed at length before and I don't • want to
> > rehash that again.
>
> I have no interest in rehashing this either. My parents agreed to release
> NELUG from any liability issues in a written document, if neccessary.
>
> > 2. Our origional "Mission Statement" - NELUG was initially started with • the
> > only goal to be to get AFOL's together in an environment that we could • have
> > adult conversations about a hobby we share. Please don't harp on me for • the
> > wording here. We know that you all share the same hobby and that most of • you
> > are very mature and converse with Adults fine. For more explination • please
> > see #3.
>
> Eric answered his own question here, I think. We all share the same hobby.
> Once you pass the "5-12" age recommendation on the box, most people are
> scorned or at least misunderstood for their hobby. Naturally this • increases
> with age, but believe me at 16 I'm getting as much weird looks as I'm sure
> some of you are at 30.
> As for maturity, I don't see how this applies when coming from people who
> repeatedly declare their inner-children to be under 12 and some even • younger.
> Personally I'm often told I'm mature for my age but that doesn't/shouldn't
> matter.
>
> > 3. The snowball effect - If you make one exception where does it stop. • Say
> > we raised the age limit to 16+ well now we will have all of the 13+ • people
> > wanting in and so on and so forth. For us 18 is the best cutoff mainly
> > because that is the age where by U.S. law we are all considered Adults • and
> > responsible for our own actions. This is a relatively easy age cutoff • for us
> > to defend because of that.
>
> OK, so you took the easy way out. That's real nice, and even slightly
> understandable, but very unreasonable. Think about it for a second. You're
> setting an age limit at the most comfortable age, but it seriously isn't • the
> right age. At 16 I'm on par with a 40 y/o as far as *LEGO* is concerned. • Sure,
> the 40-y/o probably has a larger income and possibly more lego than me • (not
> neccessarily the latter either) but the main point is we share the love to
> lego, and in the *same* way, which is (naturally!) very different than the • way
> a 7 y/o loves lego. The cutoff shouldn't be at 18 - maybe at 12, or 16, • but
> NOT 18. There's just no logic in that.
>
> > 4. We are not a babysitting service - OK don't throw stone's here we • know you
> > don't need babysitters but once exceptions start being made this is where • this
> > can lead. We don't want to end up having parents dropping off their kids • for
> > a couple of hours and expect us to monitor them for free. This is not • why
> > NELUG started and in my oppinion if this started happening many of the • Adults
> > in NELUG would stop comming to meetings and we don't want that.
>
> Sorry, can't help but get mad about this one. I babysit, and I don't think
> people would trust me with their kids if I needed a babysitter myself. I • don't
> think I need "monitoring" either. If my parents "dropped me off" it would • only
> be because I can't drive alone (yet). Maybe I'd take the T if that'd make • you
> feel better.
>
>
> Another point I'd like to bring up is that NELUG is the only LUG that has • a
> cutoff age, to the best of my knowledge. Many groups don't have a • clear-cut
> rule about this. It is much easier, and more fair towards the people • pending,
> to deal with this issue on a case-by-case basis. NELUG decided to have a
> cutoff, and I respect that - it's your choice. If you still want to have a
> cutoff, that's fine by me. But *please*, at the very least, reconsider the • age.
>
> Respectfully,
> -Shiri
>
> P.S. I've posted about this 8 months ago (and countless times between then • and
> now). Feel free to read it here.
> http://www.lugnet.com/loc/us/me/?n=116
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Age limitations
|
| (...) I agree 100%. (...) Excellent point. I can see the same thing in people I know. I see the liability issue and the maturity issue as the two main factors here. Liability is legally directly linked to age according to our laws, maturity does not (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jul-00, to lugnet.org.us, lugnet.org.us.nelug)
| | | Re: Age limitations
|
| (...) What exactly would we tell the person that got denied? "We don't think you're as cool as some other people, so you can't be in our club"? That's not likely to have a positive outcome of any sort. I certainly don't want to be the person saying (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jul-00, to lugnet.org.us, lugnet.org.us.nelug)
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