Subject:
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Re: My Gun Control Rant
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 7 Jan 2001 18:18:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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442 times
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I've held out of this one but must reiterate these points.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tim Culberson writes:
> Dave Low wrote:
> >
> > To my mind the difference is that pens, pencils, screwdrivers, baseball bats
> > etc have a primary purpose which does not involve maiming or death. I would
> > trust a six year old with a pencil. If you want to own a machine that is
> > explicitly designed to kill someone, I think you should have to register it.
> > What about cars? Much more useful than guns, although just as dangerous, and
> > we don't mind registering them.
>
> What a device is _primarily_ designed to do and what one does with it,
> in my mind, are two very different things.
There are two main threads when arguing in favor of gun ownership. Tim is
going down one thread: that there are legitimate reasons for owning guns
besides the one for which they are primarily designed.
This is a valid argument and one that Tim happens to be correct about.
However it's essentially an apologistic argument.
I choose the other thread. I own a gun precisely because it *is* an
instrument capable of delivering deadly force, at a fairly long range, in a
quick, easy to use and reasonably (although I'd prefer an electric powered
ray gun or something similarly less messy) convenient package.
The gun I choose to own is a handgun. I target shoot with it not because I
enjoy target shooting as a sport (although others do, and that's good for
them) but because I wish to maintain my proficiency as a user. I don't see
gun ownership as a hobby. I don't collect, I don't hunt. I view a gun merely
as a tool for force delivery.
Why do I want to be able to deliver deadly force? Because it's a proven
deterrent against crime. HCI "statistics" aside, the record is clear,
concealed carry states have lower crime rates (across time, and in
comparision to states with similar demos that have restrictive laws). Armed
citizens DO deter crime. No amount of manipulation will explain that away.
But even THAT argument (that guns deter crime) is an apologistic argument in
view of the reason the US second amendment was put in place. The founding
fathers didn't want a "well regulated militia" in order to deter burglaries.
That just happens to be a side benefit.
Those who favor unlimited democracies in which citizens have no inviolable
rights and in which the majority can by whim strip minorities of whatever
they wish favor gun control, of course. Armed citizens make it inconvenient
for the secret police to take people away in the dead of night.
But they are reminded that the US, at least, is not a democracy, it is a
republic, and does (in theory) have inviolate rights and an armed citizenry
in place to act as the final check and balance, should usurpurious
government go too far. That is a *good* thing. That is as the founding
fathers intended. Nothing fundamentally has changed since the American
patriots took up arms against the British force initiators more than 200
years ago.
Let other countries willingly turn themselves into nations of sheep if they
so wish.
++Lar
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: My Gun Control Rant
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| (...) What if you miss? Does your shooter have enough power to force a bullet through wall of your home? What then? The fact is, statistics show that you are more likely to use your gun on yourself or your family, than you are a criminal. Do you (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: My Gun Control Rant
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| (...) [snip] (...) And just for the record I also agree with this argument/motive for owning a gun....I chose the other root because it _could_ open up the debate from people who believe "it is never right to kill anyone under any circumstances, (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: My Gun Control Rant
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| (...) While I guess one could call me a freeloader for not being at least trained in the use of firearms and not owning one, I have to concur absolutely with the above. Unfortunately, so many of my fellow citizens didn't pay enough attention to (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: My Gun Control Rant
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| (...) What a device is _primarily_ designed to do and what one does with it, in my mind, are two very different things. The fact of the matter is it doesn't matter if a pencil is designed to write on paper with, you _could_ buy it for the express (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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