Subject:
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Re: Religion and Science
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 7 Dec 2000 10:01:53 GMT
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Reply-To:
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ssgore@&Spamless&superonline.com
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Viewed:
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1129 times
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Mr L F Braun wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > > > > That is why I can fully believe in His words. Other prophets are conduits and are
> > > > > subject to human error and fallibility. Jesus was unique. I am not necessarily
> > > > > negating other prophets and their messages (unless they actively deny Jesus' deity).
> > > >
> > > > Again, this does not address my question. It just makes a claim, but offers
> > > > no reason to accept it over any other claim beyond that you believe it.
> > >
> > > Maybe I have no reason to convince you to accept it over others.
> >
> > Then perhaps you shouldn't have made the claims you did.
> >
> >
> > > As I mentioned before, I
> > > condemn no other religion (qualify: which asserts monotheism), unless it actively *denies*
> > > Christianity.
> >
> > And the other guys are saying the exact same thing (and Christianity
> > *denies* them). So, again, why should I believe one over the other? And
> > let me note that your qualifier means you actively condemn Hinduism
> > (polytheism) and Buddhism (which says you can believe in whatever gods you
> > want to, but that implies polytheism is okay). This means the only
> > remaining major religion that you don't condemn is Mohammadism. And that
> > one doesn't admit that Jesus is God - I don't know if that counts as a
> > denial of Christianity.
>
> Ack, "Muhammadism" is a lousy term. It's a coinage of 18/19th-C.
> Orientalism, designed to denigrate Islam by reducing it to its
> Prophet. Muslims don't believe Muhammad was a (er, the) deity.
> They *do* deny Jesus's inherent divinity, but not his divine
> inspiration. The importance to them is that Muhammad was the
> *last* Prophet of God, and so carries the "final build", if you
> will, of His Word. I'm not sure Islam denies Christianity,
> however--they refer to Christians as "people of the Book."
> Misguided people, but honestly so, and thus still kin.
You are mostly true here. Islam accepts Jesus (Isa) and Moses
(Musa) as prophets of the god, just like many others (I think 24-25 of
them are mentioned in Koran by name, including Adam/Adem
Solomon/Süleyman, Simon/Ismail, Abraham/Ibrahim, Noah/Nuh, David/Davud,
etc., but it also claims that "there were too many more") but declares
that Muhammed is the last one, and unlike other religions (books), Islam
(Koran) is sent to the "whole universe" (others are for specific tribes)
as well as being the last and complete one. Islam accepts Christianity
is a religion from god and Jesus is his prophet, but also declares that
bible changed a lot, and christianity is not the same one as initially
intended anymore. Additionally, it strongly denies "son of god" issue,
since this is very contradicting to "god is one and only" claim and
insisting otherwise is the biggest sin according to Islam.
> Islam has the great attractions that its only holy book was
> most definitely written by one person (although again, 'from
> the mouth of God'). The historical records are also a heck
> of a lot better, although the miracle issue is just as foggy.
Yes, in Topkapi Palace in Istanbul, there are hand written copies of
Koran dated back to several years after Muhammmed's death, which are
exactly same as the ones used today. If something was changed, it was
changed very early. Actually the first written copy of Koran is said to
be prepared by Ebubekir (the first ruler after Muhammed), just after the
death of Muhammed. Before that, they are separate documents, not a
complete book, so there is still a possibility that it might be
changed.
Selçuk
> So that leaves (maybe) the Jews and Muslims...oh, and the
> Zoroastrians. They're probably OK too. :) (Yes, there are
> still some around--about a hundred thousand, in Iraq and Iran.)
>
> best
>
> LFB
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Religion and Science
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| (...) Moses is Musa? That explains the name of the great king of Mali (Mansa Musa). Hadn't known about that connection before! Thanks too for the "whole universe" cite--that's a bit that I didn't know either. (An excellent way to anticipate (...) (24 years ago, 7-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Religion and Science
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| (...) Ack, "Muhammadism" is a lousy term. It's a coinage of 18/19th-C. Orientalism, designed to denigrate Islam by reducing it to its Prophet. Muslims don't believe Muhammad was a (er, the) deity. They *do* deny Jesus's inherent divinity, but not (...) (24 years ago, 6-Dec-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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