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I've set the FUT back where it belongs, this is a serious debate although
couched in humor.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jon Kozan writes:
> Somehow I knew that you'd be looking for a way to get my ladders.
The offer is open to any who seek enlightenment, not just you. My previous
religion scam, er incorrectly revealed revelation which the world was not
ready for yet, "Larritarianism", was quite profitable, it netted me several
love offerings, including a silver brick!
And now... I have you and the rest of the christians right where I want
you.... Observe. (I love it when a plan comes together)
> That aside, you haven't proven anything to me. You've only made assertions
> which you can't prove.
So you doubt my word that I was saved? You doubt my word that miracles have
been worked? You doubt that these objective, verifiable events happened? I
can provide verifiable objective proof of every claim I make. I DID fund a
Brikwars game at a convention (well, I COULD have but don't let that mess
you up). People ARE making custom kits available. People ARE building 8 wide
trains. And some sinners are already slidindg into the abyss of MegaBloks
> You have no context for proving anything related to your assertions.
Certainly I do, the events, as I said, happened. By the way, I forgot to
mention, The Lehman has been making prophesies, far in advance of them
happening, which all have been coming true. Bulk Brick sales, for example. A
new Space line, for example. Losses at TLC (and if that isn't Judgment Day,
what is?) The historical record clearly shows these predictions. Just read
all of LUGNET to date and you'll find all of them. Either made by The Lehman
himself or by one of his other believers, or by me. The fact that they might
be vague predictions and that there might be some contrary predictions is
not relevant.
> You have no witnesses.
Certainly I do, and i can produce their written testimony, corroborated by
other witnesses. Unfortunately, they're all dead but don't you think it
would be a bit much for me to just manufacture these out of thin air?
They're authentic because they are old writings. Some of them look like they
were written well before you were born. And they're authentic because I say
they are.
> In reality, you have nothing that could be used to prove your statements in a
> court of law.
Irrelevant. We're talking about Religion with a capital R here. You can't
require my proof to stand up in court. It doesn't have to be objective,
factual, or even plausible. It doesn't have to explain anything that's not
convenient to explain. The Lehman works in mysterious ways and it's not for
you to question how or when He choses to reveal himself or to whom.
Or are you saying you're prepared to defend christianity and its validity in
a fair court? Surely you didn't mean THAT! If so I can hardly wait, where
can I buy tickets?
> At a minumum, witnesses are required - and while many belief
> systems have them - you do not.
Again, I do have them, lots of them, see above... And I'm a personal Witness
myself. Just ask me! Send me those ladders and I'll tell you *all* about it.
I bet I could produce 5 or 10 living people who have Witnessed, just give me
a day or two (feel free to email me if you want in on the fun, I'll tell you
what to corroborate for me) to whomp them up, er that is, have the truth
properly reveal itself.
> Thus you are on the verge of needing psychological counseling.
Does Lehmanism sound ridiculous? A little nutty? You bet. But we have way
more fun than christians do. So Lehmanism is a small religion so far. At
some point christianity had less than 1000 adherents, wouldn't you say?
We're way ahead of that already. It must have sounded equally ridiculous to
the early Romans who ran into christianity.
> You are beginning to sound like many of the Jim Jones folks or the Heaven's
> Gate crowd.
I'd say that if there is anyone in need of a little dose of reality, it's
you Jon, you're letting my parody get you all worked up! You've taken it way
too seriously and failed to see that *I* have taken the exact same
statements that Christians make and *you* have raised some of the exact same
objections the secularists raised.
If you still don't get it, this was a parody. It was intended to show, via
reductio ad absurdium, how non rational christianity's claims sound, and how
non provable the proofs offered are. You walked right into it and played the
doubter's role brilliantly. Bravo. Well done! No hard feelings I hope.
I just intended for it to get an initial laugh, but couldn't believe that
you responded the way you did so I gave it another go.
Something that's not provable, and can't be shown to have any effect on
reality except in how it (unprovably, when other causes are available)
modifies behaviour of people isn't something I am going to sign up for. Now
or later.
As I've said before, if the Last Trump comes tomorrow, I'll take my chances.
As I've said before, if your god is any good, I'll do fine on judgement day.
And if he isn't, he's not a god worthy of me or of my worship. I'm too nifty.
++Lar
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