Subject:
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Re: Is God gay? (was Re: Does God have a monopoly on gods?)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 6 Mar 2000 02:12:25 GMT
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Viewed:
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1596 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Ben Roller writes:
> First off, sorry if anyone was offended by the subject...I was getting tired
> of the old one.
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Peter Callaway writes:
> > Given that I'm a Christian it's no secret what my stance is on homosexuality
> <sigh> There you go again, speaking as if your opinions are the prerequisite
> for Christianity. It may not be a secret to anyone else, but to me the fact
> that you are a Christians only says that your stance is either "Totally for",
> "Totally against" or somewhere in between (on any issue).
>
> There are plenty of homosexual Christians (some who believe that they are
> doing right, some that believe that they are doing wrong) and if you were
> trying to imply that it's obvious that you're against homosexuality because
> you are a Christian, you're ignoring that those people are Christians too.
The prereqs for being a Christian have been around long before I graced this
earth. You make it sound like I'm professing to be the be-all and end-all of
Christian knowledge. If stating what I believe based on facts I have
researched is getting me labelled as an "inflexible fundamentalist" and
attracts a criticism of being the Christian spokesperson for all things
Christian, then I'm at a loss for words. I thought this was an intelligent
open forum.
Is it possible to be Christian and gay? I believe so. Anyone can be a
Christian. The prereq is to accept Jesus as your saviour (after careful,
exhaustive research for the benefit of Larry), and to model your life on what
he taught. What he taught about homosexuality, amongst other things, is the
clincher here. Despite the rather graphic punishment God imposed on Sodom and
Gamorrah, Jesus taught that sexual impropriety in any form is wrong. I think
this is a pretty good teaching, and not just because "God said so".
I think the question should be "Is it possible to be Christian and continue to
be gay and think there is nothing wrong with it". The answer to that, based on
what I have researched, is no. Just like it is not possible to be Christian
and continue to sin in any regard and think there is nothing wrong with it. If
I cop any flak over that I'll just give up and go play with my LEGO nativity
set.
While we're at it, what do YOU believe is the basis of being a Christian?
I'm certainly not ignoring those people. But as Christians, we need to
constantly examine how Christ lived. If these homosexual Christians believe
that what they are doing is right, I challenge them to prove it based on
Christ's life, because all the proof I've seen is that it is wrong.
> > yet in this country it is actually illegal to have that stance.
> Um, it's illegal to be against (or for, depending on what you meant)
> homosexuality? I hadn't heard of that law before just now. Our prisions here
> in the South are about to get a lot fuller and our towns a lot Emptier.
For the record, Ben, I live in Australia. There was a recent debate between
the Anglican Archbishop and the spokesperson for the Gay Community over the
recent Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras. The Church, for the first time in the
events 20 year history, was speaking out against the event, encouraging people
to withdraw their support for it, and citing Biblical references to support
their belief. Fair enough. Nothing sinister, just stating what the official
Church stance is.
The only argument the Gay Spokesperson could come up with was to warn the
Archbishop of the fact that it is illegal to have that stance and threaten him
with legal action. Rather weak. Unfortunately when this law came to pass no
one was present to balance out the Gay Community's standpoint. But the minute
you say something which disagrees with the Gay Community in this country, all
hell (excuse the pun) breaks loose. You are branded a bigot, homophobic, a
relic (stuck in the old ways, I'm assuming), and lately, threatened with legal
action.
> > Yet the Gay and Lesbian community think nothing of abusing, degrading and
> > generally dumping on the Church....fair? No, but it's the law.
>
> So now it's illegal to discriminate against gay people, but legal to
> discriminate based on religion... Man, I've been out of it. I missed those
> laws being passed. Can you mention some specifics so that I can go read up?
I'm assuming that you live in the US, so I'm not sure what the laws are there,
but I will try to dig up some references to what I'm talking about in
Australia.
Discrimination in any form is illegal, and rightly so. Saying and believing
something is wrong is not the same as discrimination. A gay person is just as
welcome in the church I attend as any other person.
Unfortunately they are now classifying anything said against them as
vilification, and equating vilification to discrimination, and getting away
with it too. Yet they are engaging in the exact same action against the Church
they are crying foul over. Saying they are actively discriminating against the
Church was a bit harsh, IMA, but it does happen, as does discrimination
against gays, and just about any other minority and majority group you care to
mention.
All people are sinners and we are no better than the next person. I struggle
with this personally because I think I am morally better than the serial
rapist in jail. But Jesus has demonstrated to me that he accepts everyone
(look at some of the people he associated with in his time - murderers,
prostitutes, tax collectors, non-Jews etc). He looks beyond the sin to see the
person. Apart from making society a much nicer place to live in, that's all
the encouragement I need to do likewise.
Pete Callaway
P.S. How did we get onto THIS?
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