Subject:
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Re: Mormon bashing again
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 2 Mar 2000 23:04:12 GMT
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Viewed:
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682 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
>
> I think Frank has answered succinctly about the founding fathers' views on
> religion. No particular religion is to be advanced over another.
I agree and have said nothing to the contrary.
>
> The Puritans were doing their best to persecute other religions, lost, and
> were chased here more than anything.
Very true, but not all "pilgrims" were puritans.
> It was that many religions came here and had
> to get along is what was the key. Rather than continue the religious wars of
> Europe, tolerance and non-establishment of a state religion paid off. Not
> perfectly. Not without its ups and downs, but adherence to that course has
> saved us a lot of grief.
>
> The Roman Cathotlic, which did its best to influence politics, blocked the
> flow of Greek literature and the Greek bible because that was the Greek
> Orthodox religion.
It was far more than that, and the greek bible had little to do with Greek
Orthodoxy at this point in time. The ante-nicene and post-nicene church was far
from greek orthodoxy, it was so fragmented - much like today - between the two
Alexandrias, Rome and Syria primarily that it would be impossible to categorize
it so succinctly. The cut off of greek literature facilitated the perpetuation
of the Roman dominance of Europe under the guise of the papacy.
> Evolution itself simply isn't under question in the scientific community.
I have read numerous articles over the years that state that a large number of
scienists concede that there must be an Architect. They don't call it Jehovah,
but they admit that there is too much order to be accidental. Unfortunately, I
don't have references.
>
> The age of the universe is extrapolated to be vaguely around 25-30 billion
> years old, not 300-400 billion. Our sun is somewhere around 5 billion years
> old (again, the conventional wisdom).
There is much evidence that states that the earth must be much younger.
History, geology and biology are very supportive of creationism. I can
eloborate if necessary. Do you honestly think that the development of the
evolutionary theory had nothing to do with Darwin and his bunch despising
religion - they were far from objective scientists who stumbled across a truth.
> > > I don't care what people believe, but I really don't think public schools
> > > are the place for religion.
I'm not advocating that either. Yet as I said, atheism, secularism or what ever
you want to call it - is as much a religion, and evolution is as much a theory.
> People simply don't want someone else's religion imposed on them.
> don't impose your religion on me. Don't force my son to recite
> the eight-fold path. Don't force Jews to recite prayers to Jesus. Don't
> force your children to recite prayers to Satan (God only knows why someone • would worship Satan, but, hey, freedom of religion). Don't force Hindus to
> gather mistletoe. Don't establish a state religion.
No one has ever done these things, and I don't believe anyone is proposing
that. The problem is that everyone on each side of an issue is reactive instead
of proactive. Every part of these discussions - puritans, atheists, darwin,
mormons, etc. ad nausseum - are based on a reaction to what someone else has
done versus taking a positive first step in any direction. We allow ourselves
to framed by our opponents, and run as far as possible to the opposite extreme.
>
> Communism was a state religion (or religion substitute). It was dogmatic and
> not to be questioned. Stalin rejected Darwinism (remember all those Russian
> crop failures) because it didn't fit the state religion. It illustrates the
> dangers of letting dogma dictate to science what is acceptable theory.
Yet a visceral disdain exists of anything religious in the scientific
community. It's relegated to superstition. Science is not supreme. Not
everything can be proven or demonstrated scientifically. Science is morally
vacuous. I don't believe the two are irreconcilable. Many of the greatest
advances in science were made by devout christians.
>
> Last recorded words of the Columbine killers, "We are going to a better
> place." Not the words of atheists.
You don't know what they meant by that. What about Kamikaze pilots, they
thought they were going to a better place - doesn't make'em christian.
> Unfortunately, too much has been deemed permissable
> in the very name of God - murder, slavery, racism.
Very true. Still doesn't change who He is, just proves who we are.
Bill
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| Wow, I think this is my first post to .debate... <snipped a bunch of stuff> (...) Well said. :) I've enjoyed reading your responses; keep up the good work. Joel (...) (25 years ago, 2-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) Ahhh, yes, you referenced pilgrims and after reading that section I forgot and thought you said Puritans. My mistake. (...) far (...) categorize (...) It cuts both ways - they were religions that decided they needed to compete and have (...) (25 years ago, 3-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Evolution (was Re: Mormon bashing again)
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| (...) Printed where? Were they sociological studies of the religious beliefs of professional scientists, or were they annecdotes of certain scientists who had some Christian coworkers? What is a large number? Is it in the hundreds or the thousands? (...) (25 years ago, 6-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Mormon bashing again
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| (...) men, (...) fled (...) anything. (...) I think Frank has answered succinctly about the founding fathers' views on religion. No particular religion is to be advanced over another. The Puritans were doing their best to persecute other religions, (...) (25 years ago, 2-Mar-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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