 | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | Frank, (...) Yes, but I repeat myself many times: Since these people that are taking these test, mostly Hispanics and African Americans that would not normally get in due to the admission policies (I took this from the article, BTW), they use this (...) (25 years ago, 1-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | (...) Show me a test that is fair across the board. You can't, they don't exist. Standardized tests are "standardized" for the majority, and time after time have been proven to have prejudices against those not taught to what the test makers thought (...) (25 years ago, 1-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) Why is that? Should the tests be designed to determine who has a good chance of succeeding at college? I think so. What if research indicates that testing 'white' people with the ACT is valid and testing 'black' people with a teamwork (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | Chris, (...) Because it sets up different standards, which segregate black and whites, and other groups. There is something about not discriminating because of race, sex, etc. Isn't there? Or should we? If we want a fair society, race and sex and (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) In that case, I think we should test ALL students at all levels on their assembler coding skills. Hey, you think using different tests for different people is not fair. Of course I'll start picking doctors who went to school in some other (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | "Scott E. Sanburn" wrote: > Why is that? Should the tests be designed to determine who has a good (...) Making it so they all go to college together segregates them? (...) Should not? What do you mean should? What if it does? Does matter, whether or (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | Heartlessly snipped, as usual (...) I guess I'm mostly with Chris on this one. Scott, you raise some valid points about flaws in the current system. But short of scrapping the whole notion of regulating how colleges admit people, which is my (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) My college education (at the first "engineering" college in the US (world?) - Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) certainly focused on a well rounded education. We were required to effectively take one humanities or social sciences class every (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | Larry & all, This whole set of posting is off from what I am arguing about, which is affirmative action. I think discrimination, on anyone, is wrong, in the context of jobs, education, etc. If we test people, shouldn't everyone take the same tests? (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) Ok, if the only discussion is about affirmative action, tell me, do you believe that currently blacks and women as general classes of people have the same opportunities as white males as a general class of people? If you do, then what is your (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | (...) Some do and some don't, just like everyone else. It depends on their life choices, etc. (...) That is debatable, but if they get paid less, that's something for the EEOC to look at. (...) To who? Does every job category have to have x this, y (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Your evading the question. I asked about "disadvantaged" minorities as classes. I am quite aware that INDIVIDUALS of every "disadvantaged" minority have been extremely successeful. My question is do you think that blacks as a whole have the (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Driving around with a black woman in my car sure revealed this. Suddenly I started getting stopped for fix-it tickets. My favorite was when they noted a broken light on the far side of the car that they couldn't see when they turned on their (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Tom Stangl
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| | | | | | | | (...) PURE BS there, Scott. Averaged across the board, women get paid less for the SAME work as men (less at the higher end all the way do to minimum wage, the only equalizer). You are so unbelievably wrong if you think it is the women's fault they (...) (25 years ago, 5-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | Frank raises some good points. But if I am careful I will find myself disagreeing with him... I think it would be naiive in the extreme to say that past history has not seen injustice suffered by some groups at the hands of others. Name an (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | | To all, I am not the most articulate person in the world, but what Larry said is dead on. Scott S. (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | (...) So are you saying that in Libertopia, the LEGO test for some people and the SAT for others is ok (Larry said that using different tests for different people and different schools is ok, both implicitly in this most recent post, and more (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Richard Franks
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| | | | | | | | (...) Certainly a lot of my concerns about it fall into this category, I just want to make sure that the road isn't a suspension bridge during high wind, and that we aren't travelling in a high-sided vehicle! Richard (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | (...) Well, for what it's worth, I don't disagree with any of what you say below, though I suspect that in a Libertopia, we might find ourselves supporting some different causes. That's fine with me, I don't expect everyone to have the same (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Agreed. I expect Libertopia to be a GREAT place to start a commune, for example. No pesky laws about how many unmarried people can live in the same place to get in the way (although you may have to find a property not already encumbered with (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <389A0E53.92149830@v...er.net>... (...) Of course to some extent, private enterprise would probably end up involving itself if a another Hitler (oh well, we've lost the debate again) came along and a Libertopia (...) (25 years ago, 3-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Maybe, and maybe not. If they wanted not to be that would be OK. But in my paragraph above I was talking about things that we need to do right now, and that we need to do whether or not we are transitioning toward a libertopia or not... (...) (25 years ago, 4-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Rush: "Lego is a Tool for 4 year olds" —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | (...) So if the ACT is discriminatory in favor of wealth or whiteness, then it's wrong? Fine. I agree. What about the more complex situation where it's a fairly good predictor of success for white males of middle class or greater, but not for (...) (25 years ago, 4-Feb-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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