Subject:
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Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 11 Jan 2000 14:32:54 GMT
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Viewed:
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2284 times
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Richard Franks wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Edward Sanburn writes:
>
> > > Trying to imagine how the "Founding Fathers" (which is a very loaded term,
> > > because it means overwhelmingly "upper-class white males")
> >
> > Who just happened to make IMO, the best country the world has ever seen,
> > where people have unparalleled freedom, etc.
>
> God Bless America. Freedom to be shot, be badly educated, pollute, destroy and
> watch as much mind-rotting TV everyday to fill a life-time.
You can get shot in any country, thank you very much, whether or not
they have guns, illegal or otherwise. Did you hear of Bosnia, maybe.
Chechnya (SP?) etc. Destroy what?
> Biggest and loudest
> doesn't equate to being best. IMO some of the best countries to live in are the
> smaller ones in Europe, that still foster communities, manage pollution and
> have progessive policies like mandatory 16 weeks leave for new fathers.
Ah, we have communities over here, Richard, whether you believe it or
not. Progressive policies like mandatory leave for fathers is funny,
IMO. But that is another debate. that is why most European unemployment
rates are what, 16-20%. The tax load is between 30-50% at least? You can
have it.
> > but I consider them to be some of the most unique and awe inspiring people
> > the world has produced.
>
> History has a habit of demonising or deifying people. You never remember Eric
> the mundane.. I feel that several centuries of propaganda will make any Big
> Brother seem awe inspiring.
Deifying people, no. Respecting them is another manner, however.
Propaganda is used by everyone, everywhere, most of the time.
Researching them, as I have done, is another matter.
> > Funding the NEA is not a part of American culture. Most examples of our
> > culture, IMO, should not be there. Take all the examples, Urine in a
> > jar, the shower curtain and the Chocolate bar, etc. Would they have
> > survived in a free market?
>
> The free market isn't always the best tool to use to judge somethings worth.
Yes, but is a lot better than some leftists shoving down idiotic things
down our throat.
> > In terms of the cultural literacy programs, I have had enough of those
> > as well. I have taken all the required ones, and all they are is leftist
> > propaganda machines. I have never seen such a collection of Marxists,
> > Communists, Atheists, and Liberals in my life, spouting their views, and
> > using the classroom to do it. My favorite was Race and Ethnic relations,
> > good Lord, I spent $500.00 to hear that I was personally responsible for
> > every illness of minorities. Hogwash.
>
> I severely doubt that that was the message, maybe you still have something to
> learn from that class?
Well, being there and hearing it everyday certainly makes me more aware
of what happened there than you, sir. The only thing I needed to learn
from that class is how politically motivated it was, without any reason
to teach the problems of race, and was just a front for the Prof. to
spout his political views. I got to pay for that. Well, Richard, what do
you think I need to learn? Your mentality? No thanks.
> > Whenever I see NEA funding hideous things like that Madonna /
> > Dung / Female parts monstrosity in New York, I often think of the people
> > who defend it, and wonder how.
>
> Just a stab in the dark... freedom of speech? Surely if you believe America to
> be the best country the world has seen, you can't deny this fundemental tenet?
> Or should art only be pretty and undemanding? If on one end of the scale you
> have the government suppressing controversial art, and on the other you have
> the government non-judgementally supporting art (from controversial to dull to
> pretty, etc).. then that only goes to support your argument about the
> 'bestness' of America.
Freedom of Speech is a lot different if you pay for it yourself. When
you start getting money from the US taxpayer, it is different. Making
idiotic representations like this, plus numerous other examples of NEA
funding, should not be charged to the taxpayer, which gets offended half
the time. If you want to make it, I am all for it, don't expect me to
pay for it.
>
> > It sickens me. We should cut off funding
> > for art, period. If they want to make it, fine. Let them work, like I
> > do, at two jobs, and let them use their own money to pay for it. This
> > goes for most government programs, that should not be there.
>
> This sounds like bitterness fuelled by jealousy - if artists have it so great,
> than why don't we all become artists?
Bitterness in terms of the fallacy of government programs such as the
NEA. Jealousy? Hmm... I would love the federal boys to pay for my LEGO
habit, but then I also realize that the government was not set up to do
that, unlike NEA defenders.
Scott S.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
Scott E. Sanburn-> ssanburn@cleanweb.net
Systems Administrator/CAD Operator-Affiliated Engineers ->
http://www.aeieng.com
LEGO Page -> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3372/legoindex.html
Home Page -> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/3372/index.html
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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| (...) Using a country in the middle of ethnic cleansing as a comparison is hardly flattering. You can get shot in any country, but it's more likely to happen if you live in the US than say the UK. (...) I find it easy to believe, however I would (...) (25 years ago, 11-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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| (...) Wars don't count. Have you heard the statistics recently on shootings in .uk or .nl? (...) You are sadly misinformed (Actually, "prejudiced" would be the word I'd use. Ever lived in Europe?). The countries that have these policies usually have (...) (25 years ago, 12-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
|
| (...) God Bless America. Freedom to be shot, be badly educated, pollute, destroy and watch as much mind-rotting TV everyday to fill a life-time. Biggest and loudest doesn't equate to being best. IMO some of the best countries to live in are the (...) (25 years ago, 11-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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