Subject:
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Re: Question for the Conservatives out there
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 10 Jun 2004 00:02:12 GMT
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Viewed:
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1890 times
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John wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Thomas Stangl wrote:
> >
> >
> > John wrote:
> >
> > > > As recently as three generations ago, the nuclear family as a self-contained
> > > > unit was newish. I don't assume that the nuclear family is the ultimate
> > > > peak of social development. I also don't believe that society is in any
> > > > meaningful way "built" upon the nuclear family.
> > >
> > > Well, ours is, and so is Western Culture in general.
> >
> > Really? Do tell...
>
> Take a look around. I think you are denying the obvious. What would {you}
> assert the foundation of our society is?
Judging by stats today? The foundation is just as likely to be Divorce as it is to
be Marriage. 50% goes both ways, bub.
> > I don't exactly know what reality you live in anymore, John (if I ever did),
> > but I've got news for you - the Nuclear Family is a 20th C construct, and it
> > is falling by the wayside. It is anything BUT the norm anymore.
>
> I didn't say it was the norm, just the foundation.
The foundation of what? {Your} idea of what the US should be? Ignoring the fact
that it is a 20C construct?
> > While the majority of familes
> > {might} meet your Perfect Family Mold, it's only a matter of time (I say might
> > because I am too lazy to look up the latest census figures).
>
> I doubt it. Cultures with strong, nuclear families will overtake ones that
> don't. Look at Europe. The Europeans, apparently, are too intellectual or
> secular or something to bother with procreating, and they are aging and
> f-f-fading away. All that props up their census is imigration and the
> procreation of those immigrants (and now for the good news-- those immigrants
> are predominantly {Muslim}). At this rate, Europe will be dominated by Muslims
> in 40 short years.
Dominated by Breeders, regardless of religious slant. What a shame. Hey! Let's
bury the earth in more people! 6+ billion isn't enough!
I'd like to see the rest of the world follow Europe for a few decades, maybe it
would get the population near a sustainable level.
> > > > All organisms "control" their
> > > > destinies as much as they are able.
> > >
> > > Pardon? "Control"? Animals have no control-- they are governed by instinct.
> >
> > What an absolute load of BS.
>
> What {does} govern animal behavior then, Tom? Reason? Ethics? Religion?
Fear, pain, emotions. Kind of like humans. But saying that animals can't control
their instinct is a complete load of BS. If you're stupid enough to believe that,
you're hopeless, and I'll stop beating my head against the Brick Wall of John's
Mentality.
> > > > Why is it human, and not e.g. canine, to
> > > > suppress our "animal instincts"?
> > >
> > > Animals {can't} suppress instinct. We are able.
> >
> > Even a lab rat can suppress instinct if given the right impetus.
>
> A given impetus can stimulate a given instinct. There is no reasoning going on
> in the head of a rat.
And I suppose there is zero reasoning going on in the heads of {other} primates
(we're primates, animals, remember?), nor in dolphins?
> > As usual, the vast majority of words coming out of your mouth in here stink of
> > bovine-digested-grasses.
>
> Must be the sour cream and chives dip I ate....
> >
> > > Honestly, I find this equivocation of humans and animals disturbing. Say the
> > > last tiger alive on earth was attacking me and would indeed kill me if you
> > > didn't kill it first. Would you?
> >
> > It depends - would you also be the last other person in the world that I'd
> > have to talk to? ;-)
>
> You get my point.
Not really. If there were, like now, 6+ billion people, and 1 tiger, and it was our
last chance of resurrecting tigers, and I didn't have a strong emotional bond to
you, I'd have to stop and think about it, most likely.
Placing a single human life above {everything} else with no regard is just
ridiculous.
--
Tom Stangl
*http://www.vfaq.com/
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Question for the Conservatives out there
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| (...) Take a look around. I think you are denying the obvious. What would you assert the foundation of our society is? (...) (snip) (...) I didn't say it was the norm, just the foundation. (...) I doubt it. Cultures with strong, nuclear families (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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