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(...) That's called special pleading, and it's a fallacy. It's a double-standard based in circular reasoning and cannot be used in any logically sound argument. (...) Well, that's as much a statement of faith as anything I've heard you make, and it (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I have to admit that I am surprised we are even debating this because I thought that there was consensus here. WRT to the origin of the universe, you say that "...we don't have the tools to verify our hypotheses. All in good time." Are those (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well, let's disclaim once again that science isn't in the business of proving anything as 100% fact, so I reserve the statement that science will always permit modification to existing theory. Science hasn't yet produced a supernova in the (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Hmmm, sounds convenient (point 2 from point 1) and complicated:-) (...) Yes, I am conceding this from the beginning. (...) My point is that if you hold that the universe always existed, that is a faith statement as much as any about God having (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) But the key difference is that I am saying "I accept that the universe may always have existed," rather than "I believe that God has always existed." I offer and accept the universe's existence as a possibility, but I don't put faith in that (...) (21 years ago, 16-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Okay, you are toying with me, but to be honest, you have to start somewhere to logically explain stuff. At the beginning of any one of those theories must be faith, because something from nothing is not scientific. (...) The problem is that (...) (21 years ago, 19-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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I missed this post in all the commotion, so I didn't reply earlier. My apologies to John for the delay. (...) What's unscientific about it, exactly? Thermodymanics allows for "something from nothing" as long as the net effect is zero. Quantum vacuum (...) (21 years ago, 23-Oct-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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