Subject:
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Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:31:04 GMT
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Viewed:
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685 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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I agree. In a country where you don’t know if you’re going to be alive 5
minutes from now, in a country where there’s no police forces cutting down
the crime, in a country where the armed forces are not working to maintain
the peace, order and freedoms of the citizens, then yes, have the gun. But
if you live at 32 Elm Street, Anywhere, USA, you aren’t living in that
country.
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Uh, that is seriously a load of crap. The U.S. is practically a warzone
depending on where you live and the color of your skin.
I have mentiond here before that I know of several instances of police abuse
amongst people I know -- immediate friends of mine. One such case would be when
the police forced their way into my pal’s apartment, planted drugs on him, then
beat him for a while, ultimately arresting him for possession of the drugs they
had planted on him in the first place. Luckily he had neighbors witness the
whole thing from the doorway of his flat. He was still arrested and prosecuted
but he managed to beat the rap. Afterwards, he had to spend considerable time
suing the policemen that did all of that BS to him. And let’s not forget the
permanent spinal injuries he suffered while they had him on the ground and
kicked him. Burbank, CA. circa the early 1980s. Not exactly the ghetto either.
If you don’t like that story, read the famous one:
Bivens v. Six Unknown Fed. Narcotics Agents, 403 U.S. 388
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cas80.htm
“In such cases, there is no safety for the citizen, 403 U.S. 395 except in
the protection of the judicial tribunals, for rights which have been invaded by
the officers of the government, professing to act in its name. There remains to
him but the alternative of resistance, which may amount to crime.
What was that again, Kooties? Right -- the govt. is my friend and the police are
just there to “serve and protect” me. Did you know that the police have no
liability to serve and protect anyone not already in police custody? Think about
it -- if it were otherwise anyone suffering an injury of any kind in a criminal
matter would have the right to sue the police for dereliction of duty and
negligence. Of course, they have no such duty -- and consequently no such
lawsuits pending. And it has been tried, BTW.
The contortions of logic necessary to see your side of this argument are getting
a little extreme. You have proven nothing and asserted much. I am not against
your position theoretically, but you are talking about things you clearly do not
understand.
You express yourself in platitudes intended to pursuade, but what you haven’t
done is show me how an AK-47 is not the weapon upon which a political rebellion
could be predicated. You speak of the transition of power from president to
president as if that were the only game in town -- but hey, we just had the
losing party appointed president the last time around. Talk about ignoring the
facts.
Now I’m not ready today to do anything revolutionary, but the time may yet come
to perform acts as a matter of right and civic duty. Acts that may only be
exercised tomorrow if the right to bear arms is preserved today.
I don’t mean to be offensive here, but your debate style in this thread has
seemed quite thin and shrill, at least to me. Where’s the meat in your
arguments?
-- Hop-Frog
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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| (...) And your gun in your house helped how? You bring up non-sequiters. Police corruption isn't fixed by having a gun in your house, it's fixed by 'the people' getting active--voting, educating, and fixing the system. And none of that requires a (...) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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| (...) And we're back to appealing to what's going on in *other* countries and in other times. In *America*, *today*, your gun in your house does *nothing* to preserve your freedom. Your gun in your house takes away the freedom of your fellow (...) (21 years ago, 19-Sep-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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