Subject:
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Re: For some Lego is a religous experience. (Was: Re: Quantifying and Classifying the LEGO Community)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 23 Apr 2003 01:56:42 GMT
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Viewed:
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2729 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Matt Hein writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Stefan Garcia writes:
>
> > I think you're right only in that kids should be forced into school. They
> > do, after all, have to learn something in order to make sense of the rest of
> > their lives. As for the rest, let the kids decide for themselves.
>
> Of course kids need an education or society would be generally
> uncultured, but I really don't think someone...oh say,
> ten years in age, should possess the legal right to deny
> to go to church, or for that fact, any legitimate
> social situation. In my opinion, that sounds rather
> anti-social, which raises some red flags.
Why is going to church a legal issue? That's about doing what your parents
make you do (Yes, I know about emancipation age and so forth).
> > When a kid is old enough and smart enough to know what he wants, let him/her
> > do that. As long as it doesn't involve anything illegal of course. That's
> > what makes America a great nation at the heart of it. (yes, I am involving
> > patriotism here, yes, I'm american, and hell yes I love this country) It's
> > what makes democracy great. Options.
>
> Perhaps so, but that should truely be determined on
> a case by case basis. If a kid by the age of fifteen
> or so can deliver a legitimate, thought provoking,
> and/ or sensible reason as to eschew church, then
> by all means they don't have to attend. But otherwise,
> the lack of this demonstrative reason will only show
> their misjudgement. And oh yes, I do love my country,
> if anyone has a question towards that affair.
Glad to see you agree here with having a reason to eschew church. And most
people we're talking about here don't have the option of going to church or
not. They do what they're told.
> > Why is everyone so eager to blaim atheists (I'm agnostic, btw)? There is
> > nothing wrong with having a different opinion. See my above for the rest.
>
> HMMM?! Gee, I wonder why?! No, there isn't a problem
> with being wrong. However, I have read a lot of comments
> from atheists, and Terry's just has to take the cake...
Atheists and agnostics are not necessarily anarchists or people without
morals, mind you.
> > *sigh* Christianity, great in idea, flawed in execution. Then again, so is
> > any religion. I do think though, that parents should be allowed to instill
> > morals in their children. This, unfortunately Terry, may require church.
>
> Yes, and morality, by the way, is one of the foundations
> of the societal structure, along wiht fidelity (whether
> in the self, the family or god.) However, some people
> cannot realize this truth. That's okay, they can turn the
> cheek all they want, but I won't, I refuse to.
As is your right to maintain your beliefs.
> > Hah! Bullcrap. I was forced into church today by my mother.
>
> Well, good for you, Stephen. Maybe your mother was
> considering in your best interests. What would you
> be doing besides church, anyway? Just your normal
> routine?
I would have been sitting at home reading, building, or on the computer.
And she knows I don't agree with her beliefs.
> Sometimes a weekly change, by going to church is
> refreshing. Go out, get some air, enjoy life.
I am helping with a drama production, I visit here, and I chat with friends
every day. That is enjoying life to me. Not sitting for an hour in a huge
church against my will.
> > So would moral values without the "god" aspect.
>
> Perhaps so, but in my theory, god simply serves as
> a placeholder for faith, an instrument in which some
> can place their fidelity to commit good acts. You
> don't need god to conduct such actions, but god can
> serve as a rock of faith when depression or the
> like hits. Now, if I felt downtrodden, would I ask
> myself, 'what would jesus do', act morose the rest
> of the day or place my faith really in nothing.
I take refuge in my music. A good Country or jazz track picks my spirits
right up. You don't need "god" as a rock. Some people do, fine by me,
that's them. Just proving there are alternatives.
> > Probably.
>
> Well, I see your perception is somewhat flawed,
> perhaps thrown back to the sixteenth century
> salem fiasco. You might reconsider fast forwarding
> a good four hundred years or so, Stephan, and
> realize that's a very remote possibility.
>
> If you were an atheist, the priest would probably
> respect your opinion or give you spiritual guidance.
>
> Nowhere do I see the flames of repentance flickering
> about, awaiting to devour the 'impious'. That's a
> damned myth that should have died years ago.
Yes, it is a remote possiblity but you have to admit, if it had been known
to the parish that I was there against my will, and that I did not share
their beliefs, they would not have been very receptive or even accepting.
> > What do you say then Matt, about those zealots on the street who "preach the
> > word of the lord?" Oh, and religious people usually are not so perfect
> > outside of church. A favorite quote of mine: "be a good little christian
> > boy, or I'll slap the snot out of you!" Forget where I got it, but I do see
> > it all the time.
>
> Well, what would you think If I draw out this little analogy,
> Stephan? Every day you watch TV, read a book or walk outside
> you're inundated a thousand ways with preaching, and probably
> wouldn't realize it. Of course, it comes in a variety of
> fashions, not entirely being vocal. How about media? They're
> preaching for you to buy their product. Politicians preach
> to gain your vote. People wear jeans and you may be attracted
> to purchase them. What about the local paper? Every day I read,
> the editorial section is preaching about another topic, hoping
> to gain assent. They all have similar aims as the preacher on
> the street, which have the intent of garnering your interest,
> imput or funds.
>
> Yet, we all attack the preacher due to the inherent fact
> religion is such a sensitive subject. Life is facetious...
I never thought about preaching as extending to that. Still though, we ARE
talking about religion, and it's one of the few areas that can have such a
profound effect on our life. For example, in newspapers, I can skip the
religion section, thus it is not forced on me the way Saturday school
usually is.
> > > > God doesn't exist. If he did, he'd be a real ass-hole letting all those
> > > > people suffer.
> >
> > Hehe, agreed.
>
> Well, I don't know what to say about you, Stefan...
> but I'll pray for you nonetheless. Here's to a long
> life.
Why thank you.
> > Don't you just love how tolerant those wonderful religious folk are?
>
> Irony is great, isn't it? Some preach for peace,
> but instead rely on violence...some side with
> the majority on a particular issue, then switch
> when the odds are against them. Some take a false
> stand, a bravado, then bury their heads in the sand
> at the slightest hint of altercation.
I stand by my beliefs, but I do change when I find new evidence to do as such.
> That's life, get over it. You think I'm intolerant?
> Look at Terry. When David Shwanke set up his shop,
> a brick and a prayer on Bricklink, Terry immediately
> unleashed a string of anger and acrimony at the man,
> for the noble prospect of the offer of a prayer.
>
> Gee, that's really tolerant, isn't it? NO!!!
Hence my disclaimer. I don't know Terry, and I agree, that would've been a
bit intolerant. I don't know the whole story, so I'll leave it at that.
> > > <<_Matt Hein_>>
> > > Fellow christian enthusiast
> >
> > I knew this kind of open-mindedness could only come from a christian!
>
> Thanks for my daily laugh, Stefan. Ah, humor, nothing
> can get better than it. I tell you, my ideal weekend
> would be comprised of posting politically incited
> song lyrics and insane arguments just to hear the
> recipient's reactions. Thank you for enlightening me!
>
> > How's that for being competent?
>
> Oh, so you managed to deliver a 'thought provoking'
> reply to me, Stefan. That's really nice. Give your
> mother a tangible and eloquent explanation for your
> reasons against attending church, and deliver me the
> results. Only your mother can judge your competence.
I judge my competence, and get other people's opinions. And my mom is just
as staunch in her beliefs as you, so it won't work. I've tried before.
> > Oh, and btw, I'm 15.
>
> Oh, and I'm 18. How's that for irony?
Then the more power to you. But more to the point, I'm at the age where
still can control my life. You're past the emancipation age, correct?
> > -Stefan-
>
> > If I offended anyone, umm...oops. Oh well.
>
> That's life. If anyone thinks they can appease
> to everyone in the masses, that's a failed
> prospect from conception.
Very true.
> > I'm American, and entitled to a damn opinion.
> > As is anyone else.
>
> A cheer for democracy.
Hurrah.
-Stefan-
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