Subject:
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Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:09:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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1614 times
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<37D2DA5A.3FAA4509@voyager.net> <FHMnG6.30B@lugnet.com>
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Simon Robinson wrote:
>
> > 2 - recall that I have said in the past that people with flawed morals
> > are people that I don't implicitly trust because they have come out and
> > said things like "it's OK to take from the rich and give to the poor" so
> > that makes me wonder, since I'm "rich" (-er than them, anyway), whether
> > they are going to take from ME by not completing a deal... their morals
> > seem say it's OK. So I tend to be suspicious till I build up some
> > experience.
>
> As one of your factorees :) and so I assume one of the people you
> are talking about
> I rather resent the implication that my political views could have any
> bearing on how trustworthy I might be in any trading.
I know this is Larry's argument, but why would you resent that? If
Larry is risking his money and reputation, he should be able to consider
anything he wants when making the decisions on who is trustworthy.
Right? And why wouldn't political views matter? Listen to what he's saying.
> I think that when you're trading on the Internet, you've got very little
> protection against someone who isn't honest in their dealings. And
> because of that it's quite reasonable to be wary of anyone you've
> not dealt with until you've had enough experience to build up some
> trust. But to try and link trust to political views in the way you
> just have sucks.
Do you or do you not believe that it's right to take ("by force or
fraud") money from those who have? If so, and particularly contrasted
to those of us who don't believe that's right, then why does it suck to
assume that you _might_ act in accord with those morals?
> much in certain spheres. I've never noticed any correlation between
> how reliable or trustworthy someone is and how they claim to vote
> in elections.
I have, but only a weak one that I would have trouble convincing people
of due to lack of rigor in my observations. If you are trustworthy,
despite your politics, then I suspect you're uncomfortable with one of
two things: 1) doing the actual stealing yourself - you'd rather hide
behind agents of the government for your pillage, or 2) you feel that
when you've committed to something you have a responsibility to be true,
and taxation falls outside that scope since you've never committed not
to support it. (Actually I would guess that you fit both of those.)
> World views are *opinions*. You think I'm wrong in that area?
> Well I (probably just as strongly)
> believe you're wrong too. But I see you as a good, reliable,
> trading partner,
> and I don't see any reason to bring politics into that. It
Yes, but if you did, and did so rationally, you would see that Larry's
political views support the idea that he is a reliable trading partner.
Looking at the deal from the other side does not. Larry seems to
believe that under no circumstances does he have the right to your
goods...oh wait, I guess he does if you've criminally cost him
something...but we can ignore that, the point still stands.
> wouldn't even cross my mind to think, 'Ah, Larry disagrees
> with me on these issues. Better be wary of him when I'm trading'
Because it's not a matter of simply disagreeing. Larry (it seems)
doesn't hold Christianity against potential trade partners, since theft
isn't implicit in a Christian philosophy. Do you see?
> "that makes me wonder, since I'm "rich" (-er than them, anyway),
> whether they are going to take from ME by not completing a deal"
>
> quite ironic given thay my own views in politics imply that I personally,
> given my current financial status, should be paying more tax. I'm
> rather proud of the fact that I base my politics on what I perceive to
First of all, I agree that this speaks well of your character. At least
you're consistent. But, from Larry's POV, your willingness to donate
your own money along with his doesn't make you one bit more trustworthy.
Hopefully not stepping on Larry's toes,
--Chris
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