Subject:
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Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:19:39 GMT
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Reply-To:
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jsproat@STOPSPAMio.com
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Viewed:
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1478 times
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Sproaticus wrote:
> Todd Lehman wrote:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Sproaticus <jsproat@io.com> writes:
> > > And, like any set of rules governing the world, God created them.
> > Hmmm. Well, this is one place where I kind of get confused. See, I believe
> > that God didn't create logic or mathematics -- that he in fact *couldn't*
> > create them -- because they already existed on their own without the world,
> > without the universe, and without God.
> > Naturally, of course, if God didn't exist and hadn't created us, we'd never
> > be here in the first place to discover mathematics, but it would still
> > exist, wouldn't it?
> This works if you believe that pure science -- e.g. math, geometry, nuclear
> physics, etc. -- work without the presence of the observer. (1) I don't
> subscribe to that notion. Just as observing an event will modify the event,
> then not observing the event will surely modify it. Perhaps if there were
> no observers, the event would not happen.
<CONJECTURE DISCLAIMER="http://www.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=1980">
Here's an analogy which may work: consider the rules pertaining our daily
interactions with people. Be it in the store, in a bored meeting, at a
basketball game, etc. we're all governed by rules. One should follow
interpersonal handshaking protocol before conversation. One should open the
door before entering the building. One should not violently assult the
shrubbery. And so on.
These rules didn't exist before the people using them; it's the other way
around. People decided at various times to implement new rules. What's
more, these rules aren't stronger than we are -- we can break them. Don't
present yourself before conversation, and people will receive you rudely.
Don't open the door before entering the building, and broken glass may be
present. Attack the shrubbery, and the Knights of Ni! will taunt you. And
so on.
So here's my take: God had this extra Void lying around, and He wanted to
do some really cool stuff with it. Either from experiment or foreknowledge,
He knew that without Rules the Void would not sustain Form. So He came up
with a few Rules, and Light was in ready supply. He came up with a few more
Rules, and Light and Darkness were able to be separated. Yadda yadda yadda,
Creation. The laws of science are an artifact of this event.
Now because we didn't make them, to us the Rules are strong. We can't
create matter from nothingness. We can't even separate light from darkness
without a lot of fancy hardware. But to God, the Rules are soft.
</CONJECTURE>
Cheers,
- jsproat
--
Jeremy H. Sproat <jsproat@io.com> ~~~ http://www.io.com/~jsproat/
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