Subject:
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Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:23:40 GMT
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Viewed:
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4092 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
>
> > > Can you say "pledge ruling"? I'm not sure that there *can* be an ideal
> > > document-- stuff will always happen that one could never have predicted.
> >
> > Indeed, but it is important to iron out any imperfections. You constitution
> > allows political power to be bought and sold. Millionaires can buy
> > elections. Third parties can run negative campaigns against candidates (eg
> > NRA). Your embassies are stocked with political donors. I won?t even mention
> > the plumb book or pork barrelling.
>
> But then you are simply restricting freedoms. Pretty soon we'd end up like the
> UK>;-)
The past two UK general elections have produced MPs who got to power with
virtually no funding. That is freedom.
In the UK we limit MP’s political advertising budgets to allow open access
to power. The average winning candidate spends about $40,000.00. Think
about how that would change your system of government. Bored businessmen
can’t buy themselves a seat in our parliament by spawning the TV with
vacuous advertisements.
> >
> > >
> > > > You may feel you are the "freest people in the world", but do black or
> > > > Hispanic Americans feel the same? Does their collective lack of economic
> > > > power deny them equal access to the political system?
> > >
> > > To speak in those terms is IMO racist.
> >
> > In what respect?
>
> That you mentioned race-- what would that necessarily have to do with anything?
I was questioning why in your "free country" non-whites have a lesser access
to the system due to a lack of economic clout.
> >
> > > Sure, there will always be those who
> > > are disinfranchised, but it will always cut along the poverty line rather than
> > > the racial one.
> >
> > You are ignoring reality.
>
> Damn right. People *need* to start *really* being colorblind, and stop
> patronizing "minorities". *That* is probably more destructive than
> discrimination!
People need to ask why these inequalities exist.
> >
> > > The fate of the poor has always been thus. At least in this
> > > country, the bar for the poor is higher than in any other country.
> >
> > Really? How many of your countrymen have no healthcare cover? How many millions?
>
> When push comes to shove, people get medical attention. They may not get a
> kidney, but neither may you in your socialistic system.
It is a fact that the USA has the most inefficient health system on the
planet. France, with its "socialists system", has the best. Its is also a
fact that millions of your countrymen have no health cover. Perhaps you tax
dollars you support them rather than subsidising your corporate farming sector?
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > > The fact that we are the greatest economic, military, and cultural
> > > > > presence on earth is only a testament to that fact, not reasons for it.
> > > >
> > > > Many would argue that the USA has no culture other than consumerism.
> > >
> > > Perhaps. But remember, we've only *been* a culture for 200ish years....
> >
> > So now you are saying you are not great culturally?
>
> That is pretty hard to quantify-- way, way too subjective. Put it this way-- I
> don't watch TV. That alienates me from much of Americana alone!
> >
> > > However short that is, we do have quite a rich history already.
> >
> > >
> > > I find it interesting that when immigrants come here, they *expect* to be able
> > > to preserve their *former* cultural selves, even their language. This is quite
> > > a different attitude than, say, 100 years ago. It tends to divide us rather
> > > than bring us together. I am not a fan of "diversity" for its own sake--
> > > ironically, find it smacks of racism.
> >
> > Can forcing your culture on them not also be considered racism?
>
> Who said anything about force? I'm just saying that 100 years ago people
> couldn't try to fit in fast enough. Today it's the opposite.
Is that a problem? Don't you want your kids to speak Spanish? ¿Quizás está
agregará una dimensión cultural a su vida?
> >
> > >
> > > > > We have just as many problems as
> > > > > anyone else.
> > > >
> > > > So life is not all that ?great? after all?
> > >
> > > Yes and no. Our greatest danger comes in times of prosperity. When things get
> > > really tough, that is when Americans band together best.
> >
> > I think the past few months of ?danger? has shown the USA at its worst. The
> > ?banding together? has compromised both your rights and the rights of those
> > who are not part of your happy club. Understand that much John.
>
> Understand this. Being threatened by nuclear terror is no happy club. What
> will you say when this occurs? Nobody seems to grasp the gravity of the
> situation here. These Islamic fundamental whackos would do it in a heartbeat,
> and all in the name of Allah.
Take a look at what your country is willing to do in the name of freedom.
The biggest risk to you and me is your country's foreign policy. Understand
that much John.
>
> This is war, Scott. And we all know what the first casualty of war is.
The innocent?
> It is
> inevitable, especially in such a free society as ours. But we (all) will
> overcome this adversity and be better for it.
Time will tell. I’ll sleep a lot better once Bush Jr stops his recruiting
drive for what you call "Islamic fundamental whackos".
If you keep kicking a dog, it will bite you no matter how big you are.
Scott A
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