Subject:
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Re: What happened?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 15 Jul 1999 16:28:42 GMT
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Reply-To:
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C576653@CCLABSnospam.MISSOURI.EDU
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Viewed:
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849 times
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Simon Robinson wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
>
> > There are more than 50,000 IT jobs open right now, people could get
> > skills and then get jobs that do provide those bennies. If people in
> > your area started doing that, then either the tourism industry would
> > too, in order to compete, or it would be clear that tourism there is
> > economically unfeasible.
>
> Ah. And you can just get IT skills just like that I suppose. Funny -
That depends on what you mean by 'just like that.' I figure that
someone with determination can go from being an average highschool
graduate to an employable IT professional of some type in a couple years.
> it took me so many years to slowly learn all the Windows programming
> knowledge I've got that gives me a good career. I didn't realise I was
If you call programming windows a _good_ career.
You probably have more than the basic set of skills one would need to
get started.
> wasting my time and I could get the skills instantly. What do you do?
> Do you just go into a shop and buy a box of C++ skills?
> And I assume they're offered
> at a price that you can still afford if you're on a part time or temporary
> salary and struggling to pay your rent etc.? Cool!
What is your goal with this smart-ass muleshit? Lots of people make
sacrifices in order to educate themselves. Lots of others don't.
People may do as they choose, but stop whining for the ones who choose
not to.
> > It seems like you're saying that people have a right to live wherever
> > they want - regardless of the local employment prospects - AND a right
> > to freebees doled out by those of us who go where there are good jobs.
> > I didn't end up living where I do by chance, I went somewhere that I
> > could learn skills and get a job. And I'm moving 1000 miles this summer
> > so that I can do that again. I don't even _want_ someone to take care
> > of me...I want to do it myself.
>
> Fine. Good for you. But not everyone's as independent minded.
So? It is not inappropriate that those willing to give up one thing
(emotional security) should be able to get something else (higher pay)
for it.
> I've moved
> around a few times in order to find good jobs - and just about everytime I've
> moved I've spent up to a year or more feeling isolated, stuck in a strange
> town without any friends to speak of. On one occasion I actually lost my
> girlfriend because of having to move to find work, on another occasion I nearly
> did so.
So? You made a choice. You could have chosen otherwise.
> That's not the sort of thing I'd want to force anyone to have to go
> through.
Force? I wouldn't force people to move and get a clue either. I'm just
saying that they don't have the right to chose not to move and steal
their bread and butter from me.
> So yes - having to move is not nice for a lot of people. So I'd say that
Paying slackers to live a life of ease isn't nice for a lot of people too.
> it is better all round if the Government does what it can to make sure
And because you think so, you're willing to take my resources to fund
your pet projects? It's a shame that people can reach adulthood with
such a broken set of values.
> that people can get a decent livelihood without having to uproot themselves
> and lose all their friends and sense of community etc. Just because you're
> one of the few people that can move around with no ill effects doesn't mean
> everyone's like that.
I never said there was no ill effects. Where do you get that. What
I've decided is that it's worth the ill effects of having to transplant
my entire life to move on. You think I have no friends here, or that I
make them quickly? I don't. I mostly don't like people and thus have a
hard time finding people that I can stand. There is a significant
social cost to moving, but I'm willing to take care of my family without stealing.
> > It's a problem because I have to pay for it...against my will. And if I
> > choose not to, federal jackbooted stormtroopers will kick in my door and
> > shoot me and quite possibly my family dead. That's stealing, plain and
> simple.
>
> No. It's not stealing.
Yes it is.
To steal is "to take and carry away, feloniously; to take without right
or leave, and with intent to keep wrongfully; as, to steal the personal
goods of another." Which part of this suggests that I am wrong?
> We all live in a society together.
So? What responsibility do I have to you based on this involuntary membership?
> We all benefit from having roads, an education, being defended against other
> countries, and against criminals, from all the basic scientific research done in
> universities that allowed all the modern technology here in the first place.
And I owe for that even though it's something I didn't purchase or agree
to? What a crock. If a mail-order company sends you product and then
bills you for it, for you to be obligated for that debt, they have to be
able to prove that you asked for the product. I would like you to prove
that I asked for or agreed to subsidize this product.
> and generally having all the infrastructure provided by the authorities
> that allows us to get on with our lives. And you've got to accept that
> all that stuff has to be paid for. We all owe our share of paying for
> that.
Presumably it would have all been paid for in the past if our government
weren't inexplicably irresponsible. I generally don't agree in
heritable bondage like you seem to. If one person has debts, holding
their children (especially the unborn) to those debts is plainly evil.
> If you think it's stealing, try not taking advantage of ANY of the benefits
Asinine. I don't have that option.
> you get from paying tax. Of course you'll almost certainly have to give up
> your job, since it's highly unlikely that your employers could continue
I expect so, I work for the government.
> in the state of anarchy that would ensue if the Government couldn't do
blah, blah, blah - we're all afraid of anarchy - we need Big Brother to
protect us - we're innately evil and need to be kept in check - everyone
in government is there to help you - the government never screws stuff
up - I think I get where you're coming from.
--
Sincerely,
Christopher L. Weeks
central Missouri, USA
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: What happened?
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| (...) Ha ha! Good point. Actually these days I write about it rather than program it, which is a lot more fun :) (...) true - I've got a lot more than that - but see my point below. (...) The point about it was I felt that the way you simply implied (...) (25 years ago, 15-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: What happened?
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| (...) Ah. And you can just get IT skills just like that I suppose. Funny - it took me so many years to slowly learn all the Windows programming knowledge I've got that gives me a good career. I didn't realise I was wasting my time and I could get (...) (25 years ago, 15-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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