Subject:
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Re: What happened?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:14:25 GMT
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Reply-To:
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c576653@cclabs./NoMoreSpam/missouri.edu
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Viewed:
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878 times
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Thomas Main wrote:
>
> "Christopher L. Weeks" wrote:
> >
> > Thomas Main wrote:
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, many people are not in a position to pay the outrageous
> > > premiums insurance companies require. And even if people do want to
> >
> > Gosh, I've found that insurance is quite affordable. What's the scoop?
> > Oh, maybe it's because I've chosen an employer with a good package of bennies.
>
> Well, I am also fortunate in that regard because I work for the State of
> North Carolina. Now, I live in a small town in the Appalachian
Is that fortune or decision?
> mountains of NC that just happens to have a university in it which isthe
> area's largest employer. However, most private employers in this area
> do not offer benefits or decent wages to their employees for a variety
There are more than 50,000 IT jobs open right now, people could get
skills and then get jobs that do provide those bennies. If people in
your area started doing that, then either the tourism industry would
too, in order to compete, or it would be clear that tourism there is
economically unfeasible.
> of reasons. Our labor force consists of student workers, non-unionized
> skilled labor, and a majority of the people work in service or tourist
> industries. Employers find that they can hire part-time, temporary
> labor without providing health insurance or other benefits to their
It seems like you're saying that people have a right to live wherever
they want - regardless of the local employment prospects - AND a right
to freebees doled out by those of us who go where there are good jobs.
I didn't end up living where I do by chance, I went somewhere that I
could learn skills and get a job. And I'm moving 1000 miles this summer
so that I can do that again. I don't even _want_ someone to take care
of me...I want to do it myself.
> employees. Health insurance through group plans at work are a good idea
> - the government can provide quite a large "group plan" to take care of
> the uninsured that private industry ignores. Why is this a problem?
It's a problem because I have to pay for it...against my will. And if I
choose not to, federal jackbooted stormtroopers will kick in my door and
shoot me and quite possibly my family dead. That's stealing, plain and simple.
> > We disagree.
>
> We disagree about the role of government - ok - but let's imagine a
> world in which government can spend responsibly, be large enough to
> service its citizenry and provide a check for big industry without being
> bloated and self-perpetuating for the sake of itself. Let's trim
> *unnecessary* government while growing and improving government in other
> areas.
Well, that sounds like an impossible step up, but still not ideal. How
about a government that is big industry? Where industries check each
other. Where everyone in the world is in nearly ubiquitous nearly
instant communication and the power of the consumer dollar (or currency
in general) smacks companies around for behaving inappropriately.
> > In all cases? It just burns me up that lung cancer is covered by
> > medicaid. Why should I have to pay for a bunch of other peoples' bad decisions?
>
> I agree to some extent - I can't believe the government is sucessfully
> suing tobacco companies to cover this additional expense. Let's pay
Yup. Outrageous. As if anyone doesn't know that they're killing
themselves when they choose to smoke.
> people for good decisions by supporting health education programs in
> schools and out - health care is focusing more and more on preventive
> medicine. Give incentives (tax or otherwise) to people who practice
> good health by not smoking, or join a gym, etc.
OK, so I'm a softy on education...I'm willing to support tax dollars
going to schools in the non-ideal world of tax and spend that we live
in. I think that it's the absolutely best tax burden we bear, and an
investment in the future.
> > > supports libraries, museums, and artists for the intellectual health of
> > > its citizenry. It should support basic universal health care for its
> > > citizens also. After all, the people give their tax dollars, patriotism
> > > - some even give their lives - for the government.
The government shouldn't support any of those things. They shoudl be
membership driven.
> > My tax dollars are taken by force. I don't give them anything. When
> > it's giving there is choice implicit. Since they'll come to your house
> > and kill you, it's more akin to extortion.
>
>
> But the government provides you with roads, law and order, emergency
> relief and support and other benefits without your having to ask for
> them.
That doesn't make it right to steal. Is it OK, for my neighbor to steal
all the veggies from my backyard garden, sell them (wasting half or more
of the money by doing it poorly) and give me all the procedes? Of
course not. What's the difference?
> We live in a large, complex society which must be supported
> somehow. What's the alternative?
User fees. As far as I can tell it's the universal answer.
> A government that collects no tax
> can't provide *essential* services. We must be personally responsible,
> yes. But we must also be responsible for the greater society.
Why? The real answer is - because you want it, and you're willing to
steal from me to make it so.
OffTopic: By the way were you one of the SC:TCG people when that mailing
list existed...I think I know your name from before I started reading
RTL 18 months ago?
--
Sincerely,
Christopher L. Weeks
central Missouri, USA
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: What happened?
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| "Christopher L. Weeks" wrote: <snip> (...) Yep, I was on that list. And, I once won a contest (I think it's the only contest I've ever won) in which I received an uncut sheet of the Chicago set for SC:TCG. I still have it. (...) -- Thomas Main (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
| | | Re: What happened?
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| (...) Ah. And you can just get IT skills just like that I suppose. Funny - it took me so many years to slowly learn all the Windows programming knowledge I've got that gives me a good career. I didn't realise I was wasting my time and I could get (...) (25 years ago, 15-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: What happened?
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| (...) Well, I am also fortunate in that regard because I work for the State of North Carolina. Now, I live in a small town in the Appalachian mountains of NC that just happens to have a university in it which isthe area's largest employer. However, (...) (25 years ago, 29-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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