Subject:
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Re: Is this sexism?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 28 Jun 2001 21:22:00 GMT
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Viewed:
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362 times
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David Eaton wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes:
> > I would consider it sexist. I have no problem with giving the time off, but >to be fair you'd have to give men the same time off.
>
> How do you feel about maternity leave? Sexist? Should the husband get the
> same time off as the woman? Should they be paid? And yes, I do know some
> companies DO allow men to get time off. But it's certainly a lot more rare.
Yes, yes, and no.
This should really be in a separate thread, but...
Women usually CHOOSE to get pregnant. I don't think they should get PAID time off for a medical condition they CHOSE to have.
I also don't think parents should get paid Flex Time while denying it to adults without children. Again, they CHOSE to have kids, and
rewarding them for it/punishing others for NOT having kids just isn't right.
> I guess my point is I don't really think of it as being sexist because the
> actual issue isn't someone's sex, it's their severity of physical ailment
> which may or may not affect their work performance. It just happens to be
> the case that women get it, and not men. And yes, if it *does* negatively
> affect their work performance, then either they need to be negatively
> compensated, or those who don't use it should be positively compensated.
> Whether that's by extra time off, money, etc, is fair game to be decided,
> but it needs to be there to reflect the quality of work. If it *doesn't*
> affect their work performance (for some jobs this would be true), then no
> compensation is needed. IMHO.
I agree.
> > There are all sorts of physical ailments that people have that require time
> > off, and most companies don't give paid time off for those ailments except
> > under extreme circumstances (unless they have PTO built into the general pay
> > structure).
>
> Agreed. I interpret the question as "Is PMS a severe enough issue for some
> such as to deserve sick leave?" And you say no. And I'm 90% with you on that
> one. Although were I in charge of a company's policy on the matter, I might
> or might not decide that the policy was fair for particular people. But as
> general legislation, I agree 100%.
Well, I don't quite say that, but in most cases, yes.
I've had girlfriends that were basically incapacitated by migraines and other side effects of PMS, and I think they should definitely
be able to take time off. I just don't think (in general) that it should be PTO, especially if it's known to happen consistently every
month, unless you then give everyone equal sick days (if the company has a strict limit of sick days), or pay them less because they
will be working less.
So in general, I think this would be a Bad Thing - it might lead to resentment on one side, and possibly lower pay on the other, if it
weren't handled right (and I can virtually Guarantee you that if the gubmint stepped in, they'd handle it wrong).
> > And considering it unpaid leave still doesn't totally solve the problem, as
> > unpaid or not, in many cases, when one is absent, it affects your coworkers
> > negatively.
>
> Well, I would argue that would be true only for some jobs. And if it *is*
> the case (that unpaid leave doesn't solve the problem), then adequate
> compensation needs to exist elsewhere within the policy description in order
> to make it fair, I'd say.
Agreed.
On a side note, all we really need is more women doctors and researchers (because men simply can't relate) so that they can work on PMS
side effects to find a good battery of drugs to handle the various problems. There are some good ones out there, but none are anywhere
near perfect.
--
| Tom Stangl, iPlanet Web Server Technical Support
| Netscape Communications Corp
| A division of AOL Time Warner
| iPlanet Support - http://www.iplanet.com/support/
| Please do not associate my personal views with my employer
|
|
Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Is this sexism?
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| (...) I dunno-- it may still be relevant... see below... (...) So, if they DON'T choose it, is it sexist/unfair to give women paid time off? Likewise, couldn't a woman choose to take the pill to at least lessen the effects of PMS? Or, embarking into (...) (23 years ago, 28-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Is this sexism?
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| (...) Generally, I would say that this is the case, but not always. I'll leave that to another thread. (...) I don't necessarily agree with this, but I see your point. How about LASIK or other elective surgeries? As far as I know most people (at (...) (23 years ago, 28-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Is this sexism?
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| (...) But isn't that a grey area, Tom? How do you prove if it was a choice or not to get pregnant, yet alone a choice or not to even have sex? I think it would be hard to prove and/or a waste of time and money even trying. I say give women the time (...) (23 years ago, 29-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Is this sexism?
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| (...) How do you feel about maternity leave? Sexist? Should the husband get the same time off as the woman? Should they be paid? And yes, I do know some companies DO allow men to get time off. But it's certainly a lot more rare. I guess my point is (...) (23 years ago, 28-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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