Subject:
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Re: Rolling Blackouts
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 30 May 2001 12:21:39 GMT
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Viewed:
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1183 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher Tracey writes:
> > Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> > > overfishing is a worldwide problem, and a growing one. Whatever nation
> > > builds the largest fleet of boats wins the race to catch the remaining few
> > > free roaming large schools of species x, then there is a crash, and we move
> > > on to the next species. Or so it seems.
> >
> > so sad...
> >
> > > This is a classic tragedy of the commons problem. Whoever most insanely
> > > exploits the commons "wins", but the commons (in this case, fish stocks) is
> > > destroyed.
> >
> > what does the Libertarian think of the tradegy of the commons? Is it
> > addressed?
>
> Yes and no.
>
> The standard Libertarian answer applies well to the standard example...
> sheep overgrazing a commons can be remediated by having someone (or a group
> of someones) own the formerly common area and controlling how many sheep
> graze there.
Alternatively the users of the common could determine what the maximum usage
level is. Rather that competing against each other, they could invest in
sheep together, via some sort of co-op, and take advantage of the common
that way. However, I expect this would only work well is the co-op owned
the common. It is greed which causes overuse - not common ownership.
>
> Works fine for resources that are fixed (Grazing lands, timber stands,
> etc... as an aside I think a lot of the overgrazing, overlogging and
> overirrigating in the US (which is shameful!) is directly caused by the fact
> that the land being grazed or logged or the water being used to irrigate is
> government owned, and thus the true costs aren't being passed through to the
> users. 10 cents a head a day to graze a cow??? I don't think that sounds
> like a true cost).
>
> But this scenario deals with resources that are mobile. Fish schools just
> don't seem all that ownable to me. How are you going to tag them??? And
> owning the oceans themselves means that if some owner that the school passes
> through lets overfishing happen, it hurts all owners.
>
> And that's where there's a clear economic value! What is the economic value
> of biodiversity? Who "owns" the fact that there are a lot of undiscovered
> species still in the amazon? There IS value to that but how do you measure,
> assign, track, hold title, etc? Seems silly to even contemplate it.
Indeed it does.
>
> So no, this area isn't as well addressed as other tragedies by Libertarian
> orthodoxy, hence my posing the question to others in search of concrete
> solutions or suggestions. We got some suggestions which was good, plus the
> usual obfuscation by the usual suspect, which is unfortunate, but the
> off-topic.debate resource *is* a resource held in common with no clear
> direct cost to the poster if the poster posts something inane, so what do
> you expect?
I expect just this from you Larry - disruptiveness. If you are referring to
my "obfuscation" – if you took the time to justify some of your arguments
rather than making your usual noisy unsubstantiated comments perhaps you
would not be questioned quite as much. The easy way to stop my "obfuscation"
would be you to show us how 2500 economists were wrong and why economics
textbooks are wrong. If you can?
Scott A
> :-)
>
> d-Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Rolling Blackouts
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| (...) Absolutely. Coops are wonderful for lots of things. But then there isn't really a common, since the resource that might have otherwise been common is now owned by the coop. So you're basically solving the ToC issue the same way that the (...) (23 years ago, 30-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Rolling Blackouts
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| (...) Yes and no. The standard Libertarian answer applies well to the standard example... sheep overgrazing a commons can be remediated by having someone (or a group of someones) own the formerly common area and controlling how many sheep graze (...) (23 years ago, 30-May-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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