Subject:
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Re: Lego Direct (was Re: Georgia LEGO Outlet is Cool!)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.dear-lego
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Date:
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Mon, 27 Mar 2000 06:30:22 GMT
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In lugnet.dear-lego, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.dear-lego, Mike Poindexter writes:
> > #1 - These are not "Rare, expensive sets" in Lego's eyes. These are sets • that
> > nobody wants to buy. That is why they are old. It is not TLC's job to watch
> > ebay and Lugnet to find out how to "most fairly" move these sets. They were
> > for sale to the entire marketing area for a number of years. From their
> > standpoint, a skid (one pallet) of MISB Metroliners is the same as a skid of
> > Witch's Windships or Adventurers Blimps.
>
> Then they should catch a clue -- or is Brad Justus just a troll here? Is he
> just a plant to stem the tide of our venom as I already half suspect?
>
> I'm sorry, but I think it is very much TLC's job to pay attention to what we
> fans want, and not just with an eye towards the bottom line -- although I am
> not sure why everyone insists this is an obstacle. Where others see problems
> I see opportunities going unfulfilled.
True, it is their job to pay attention to what fans want, but the bottom line
DOES show that. Profit is a measure of consumer satisfaction. The fact is
that what WE want is not necessarily what the majority of Lego consumers
want. In that respect, we are not the group they market towards. Although I
think they should market with us in mind, I don't expect AFOLs to be the
target market.
> And I still believe in warehouse finds, I am not convinced that these were
> returned items or something of that kind.
I also believe in warehouse finds. I had one hell of a warehouse find last
summer in Switzerland.
>
> > You do sound bitter with the "overly-satisfied deep-pockets [group]" comment.
> > If you can't accept it, you are going to have a hard life, because it isn't
> > just with Lego sets that this happens - it is the Capitalist system. There
> > was a better way than our system. If you are interested, you can read about
> > it. It is the Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx. I am sure in Russia, as in
> > China, everyone has equal opportunity to buy their Lego sets.
>
> Ummm, you don't know me well enough to address me in this manner, whereas my
> comments were vague enough to NOT attack any one person. But hey, if the shoe
> looks to fit then wear it all the way home, Baby!
Just because you don't attack a person specifically does not mean that you
should be immune to people retaliating.
> I did not attack you personally or try to give you a political science
> lesson. There's a really good chance that I am at least as well educated, if
> not better educated, than yourself. But enough of this silverback preening...
Agreed that we don't need any more testosterone flowing here, but although you
were not giving a politcal science lesson, you appeared to be giving a
marketing and economics lesson.
> And I didn't call for any unfairness TOWARDS deep-pockets, just fairness
> across the board regardless of deep-pockets. My hypothetical situation didn't
> really apply to 2 sets of 6078 as far as I was concerned, which is why I made
> a hypothetical situation up involving 100 of some one set.
Fairness across the board at the cost of the businesses? Large orders that
are given before product even comes in can improve effieciency, reduce the
sales cost of moving the product and provide a quicker return on their
investment. Is it fair to force them to lose that extra profit?
> And I think it goes without saying that there is some unhappiness amongst us
> Lugnuts that others can and do buy ALL of something that they see on sale.
> Let's not pretend its for personal use when its obvious that many people
> purchase sale stuff for resale. Not getting even one of some item while
> others are hoarding tens and hundreds of the same item is annoying. Some
> people getting that silly blimp for $5 when I never saw it for less than $15
> is also annoying (most were also minorly damaged which is why I didn't buy
> them). Paying more than $0.10 a brick is also annoying.
I agree that it can be annoying to see some sales that you can't find. I
can't even find a walmart with the blimps here and when they had them, they
were always $19.97, but that is never going to end.
Yes, I buy lots of certain sets when I see them on sale. Some, I sell on
ebay. Others, I take out parts I want and sell off what is left. If people
REALLY wanted the set, they should have bought it. Waiting for it to go on
sale is risking not getting it when it goes on sale. I sometimes see people
talking about some stash they know of at 50% off and they are waiting for it
to hit 70% off. I always tell them that it might be best to get them, since
if anyone sees them, they might buy the whole lot of them.
I understand people getting mad about people buying all of something on sale.
When you see 4 Club Cars at some toy store for $20 each, are you saying that
you, or anyone else, would only buy one or two? If you would buy them, then
you are in the same boat.
>
> I think TLC should try and make things more easily obtainable and more
> affordable across the board by eliminating middlemen. Why would you object to
> something as capitalistic and democratizing as that? What exactly do the
> words "Lego Direct" mean to you, if not that?
I think that eliminating middlemen sounds great as an idea. Then of course, I
can't go to Toys R Us and buy track for my train set because Lego has
eliminated the middleman and allowed NOBODY to sell track other than Lego. I
don't know of a bunch of trainheads throwing a party over that decision.
Middlemen make things more easily obtainable. That is their job. Safeway is
the middleman between you and the dairy. I sell nuts to supermarkets and it
is better for me if I DON'T sell direct. It is too much work. Every time I
try to sell bricks off of ebay, it ends up being a tremendous amount more
work. Ebay is the middleman and it makes it easier on me and more obtainable
for others.
Selling direct is fine. Establishing maximum purchases and limits on sets
that have been out for years is not capitalistic because it moves away from a
free market.
>
> Or is to be: "Lego Direct into Mike's Ready Hands Where He Sorts and Resells
> the Bulk Purchased Elements?" I happen not to be sure if you do a lot of
> reselling, but I think that you probably do...
I sell about $3,000 of Lego per month. I spend quite a bit more than that,
but I don't really want to see how much I am sinking into this hobby. Also, I
don't "just sort and resell." I buy for parts I need or want and sell off
what I don't want or need. There really is no other way for me to get these
parts. I needed about 100 of the Belville baseplates, so I bought 100 of the
Garden Playmates sets. I sold off many of the pieces from them and kept some
others I wanted and some others that weren't worth selling off (like 1x4 blue
bricks). Again, only allowing me to buy 5 sets wouldn't have helped me much.
Larger creations require larger numbers of bricks.
> > To not allow me to so that somebody else who doesn't want them as much is • very
> > much like finding 2 USS Constellation Sets and only be allowed to buy one so
> > another kid can get the other for use as a BB gun target. You want the 2nd
> > one more than he would want the first one. To not allow you to buy more than
> > one is inherently unfair, wrong and not what this country is about.
>
> That's a compelling argument. But I have to ask: do you really want it, or
> just really want it so that you can resell it? If the former, no argument.
> If the latter, big argument. I think its in my and TLC's interest to dispense
> with would-be middleman types.
I originally was going to run an isolated block system on my train layout to
allow multiple trains on the same track to operate independantly. The 8480
Space Shuttle had all sorts of items I needed for that, so I bought 15 of
them. I then switched my train of thought (no pun intended) and decided to
run DCC. I then sold a bunch of the shuttles on ebay. Most of them get
exported. I bought some more from the local Zany Brainy. The people in Japan
can't get them in the stores and ZB just had them sitting there for a month.
They moved product faster because of me and that helps them justify carrying
Lego. If they sat there for another year, then they would consider scaling
back their Lego section and carrying more Kinex.
Zany Brainy moved product and made money. I did a little bit of work and made
some money. People overseas got sets they couldn't otherwise find. We are
all happy. If Lego had a better system of distribution, then this wouldn't
happen, but in the process of doing this, I am improving their distribution.
I remember the 8880 Supercars selling for $300 on ebay and now it is $150-
200. I remember the 8480 shuttle selling for $250 and now it is $120. That
has made it available to MORE people at a LOWER cost than if I and others were
not doing this.
> This makes things cheaper for me, and create
> more profit for TLC. Now who needs the lesson in modern internet economics?
> Eventually, the internet will mean dealing directly with the manufacturer /
> creator -- why have the intermediary mark-ups?
I would have to disagree a bit here. With all the modern internet economics
going around, it is important to realize that a huge percentage of these
internet businesses are LOSING money. Amazon.com is over a billion dollars in
debt and still losing money (as of an interview I saw a few months back). As
for the middleman markups, I can ship a 5# box of almonds to a customer for
$5, which adds $1/lb. to the cost of the product. I was selling to stores at
$1.50 and they were selling them to consumers at $1.99. You can't cut out ALL
the middlemen. UPS or the post office still get a cut there and they can at
times take a large one.
Just because you are going direct does not mean it is more efficient.
> And its a case of apples and oranges -- I was hypothetically talking about 100
> SES sets, not just 2. 2 SES sets TLC can feel free to dump in any manner they
> wish -- 100 sets means they can make some Lugnut fans happy. I have to ask:
> why instead of just sending stuff to outlet stores doesn't TLC post
> information about available sets to their website or even to here under
> the "marketplace" category? Can the money to maintain and properly staff a
> series of outlet stores, which is SO VERY region specific, be easier to
> implement and less expensive than setting up an easily updated online
> presence? I doubt it. I question it. I assert that it is unfair to many
> fans.
Well, how fair would it be to find out that as the owner or manager of an
outlet store, you were unable to get these sets? What, you get to carry
everything Wal-Mart has? That would be unfair. The outlet stores are region
specific, but they do ship, so what does it matter if you call the outlet
store vs. calling Shop At Home?
Well, I see how you would want them to post here about what is for sale, but
then people who didn't know about Lugnet could complain just as much as you
did. They called more than one person. If they called 10 times as many
people and still not you, would you be happier? Posting on Lugnet, by your
explanation, would be unfair to the RTL crowd and posting on their website
would be unfair to those off-line. The distribution of information is tough.
It is almost impossible to spread it evenly and at the same time to everyone.
> TLC is the manufacturer of a collected product -- wrong or right, some
> measures towards fairness need to be undertaken by Lego Direct if and when it
> happens. Or does the current geography-based product pricing and distribution
> satisfy you? If so, why have Lego Direct at all? Why ask for bulk orders?
Many of the "collectors" are not really collectors. I have had people refer
to me as a collector. Of course, I open the boxes, seperate the pieces, break
up the sets and sometimes never even build the intended model. I don't see
myself as much of a collector, although I do have a few choice prizes in
my "collection."
I want bulk ordering, but the items they are going to offer are ones I can
already get through existing channels, so it will do me very little good.
When I can get parts I can't otherwise find, then I will be happy with Lego
Direct. In case you don't recall, I was offered bulk ordering from Lego, but
they would only sell me the pieces I already was getting from Toys 'R' Us and
were asking for 3 times what I was paying. So much for cutting out the
middleman and saving money.
> Shut up and be satisfied.
You must be new here! I rarely shut up and am never satisfied. ;-)
>
> In the meanwhile, I want to express what I'd like to see happen in the
> future. I want to state with great specificity the problems I have with the
> manner in which TLC currently does business. If they want my or any other
> Lugnut's help in becoming THE branded toy name in the next handful of years,
> then I for one expect more than mere lip service.
>
> If TLC sells any one person 100 MISB SES sets at 50% of originally suggested
> retail and tells no one else about it at all, I will want someone's head on a
> pike and their blood upon the earth! Okay, so its just rhetoric -- but its
> not empty!
>
> -- Richard (Still saying no to spellcheck =oP)
Richard, if they tell no one else about it, how will you know it happened? I
am sure that the purchaser would not tell you, for fear of being decapitated
like an extra Timmy.
Mike Poindexter
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Lego Direct (was Re: Georgia LEGO Outlet is Cool!)
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| (...) I think its interesting that you feel the need to "retaliate" about something that is actually addressed "Dear-Lego" and concerns the manner in which TLC does business with us fans. You "few" guys are pretty reflexive about this point I am (...) (24 years ago, 27-Mar-00, to lugnet.dear-lego)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Lego Direct (was Re: Georgia LEGO Outlet is Cool!)
|
| (...) Then they should catch a clue -- or is Brad Justus just a troll here? Is he just a plant to stem the tide of our venom as I already half suspect? I'm sorry, but I think it is very much TLC's job to pay attention to what we fans want, and not (...) (24 years ago, 27-Mar-00, to lugnet.dear-lego) !
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