Subject:
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Re: Request for more stringent naming of (Complete|Shortcut) parts
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad
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Date:
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Wed, 17 Sep 2008 23:41:15 GMT
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Viewed:
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5905 times
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In lugnet.cad, Travis Cobbs wrote:
> In lugnet.cad, Kevin L. Clague wrote:
> > As thorough as this document is, it is incomplete or ambiguous in the area of
> > describing "compound parts". For example 4107488.dat, "Technic Tread (Complete
> > Shortcut)" is actually composed of multiple of 681.dat, 680.dat, and 682.dat
> > instances.
>
> Shouldn't 680.dat, 681.dat, and 682.dat all be in the parts/s directory? They
> don't represent real pieces of plastic (or rubber in this case), so I don't
> understand why they are modeled as such. Or do synthesized sub-parts get
> treated differently?
I guess they should be, but they are not.
>
>
> > Without guidance, LPub happily shows N 680.dats, M 681.dats, and O 682.dats,
> > which make absolutely no sense to LDraw novices. Sure, the version of LSynth
> > that our dear friend Willy uses, automatically solves this problem.......
> > but.....
> >
> > Where possible I'd like LPub to automatically know that N 680's, M 681's and O
> > 682's means one 4107488.dat in the part list image. Think of a more simple
> > case: Minifigs...... as dear as they are, the are compound parts.
> >
> > I'd like LPub to see N instances of battle droid head, battle droid torso, two
> > battledroid arms, and two battledroid legs and realize that they are a
> > battledroid.
>
> I think the minifig/battle droid case is fundamentally different from the
> technic tread case, and care should be taken not to confuse the two. The
> technic tread is a single piece of flexible rubber that has a shortcut part that
> represents one popular shape that it is used in. The minifig is something that
> is constructed from multiple real life pieces. I understand that what you want
> is something that can be used for both cases, and be recognized by LPub, but
> care definitely needs to be taken.
Fair enough. I didn't know they were always shipped disassembled.
>
> On a side note, LDView automatically considers any sub-files of a "part" to not
> be a part (for the purposes of scaling for seams). It seems to me that LPub
> should probably do the same, which would solve your problem with 4107488.dat.
> After all, if someone has declared something to be a part (either via a header
> comment or by putting it in the parts directory), then it seems safe to assume
> that it really is a part, even if it is composed of other parts.
The only files that LPub opens and analyzes are model and submodel files. All
other opening and analyzing of part files is done by LDView and LDGLite.
>
>
> > How will it know this? Look at all examples of "compound parts" in all the
> > official and unofficial parts directories and know what they are composed of.
> >
> > I've come up with simple rules for detecting "compound parts".....
> >
> > grep "Compound" * > foo
> > grep "Shortcut" * >> foo
> >
> > but this is a heuristic, not a perfect algorithm. If we could come up with a
> > more precise "complete shortcut" description, it could be much more computable.
>
> I'm not sure why this is necessary. If you treat sub-files of parts as not
> being parts, then you get this automatically. Since there's already an official
> way to specify that something is a part (header comment), I don't see why a new
> "official compound part" definition is needed. Or do you feel that having
> sub-files of parts not be parts will lead to combining of parts into one single
> part when they shouldn't be?
Lets try a few other examples:
a) technic turntable tops and bottoms can have a phase difference from 0 to
359 degrees. If your design needs a phase difference other than what the
"complete" version does, you add your technic turntable as two pieces.
b) same thing with motors.... the shaft can be at any angle WRT the body. To
make this work, you would use a complete motor sans shaft, and a shaft.
These two cases are the same thing, but in both cases you have to use two parts
(or subparts directly used in your model file), but you want the complete
version to show up in the part list images. LEGO ships turntables and motors
completely assembled.
>
> On a side note, remember that LEGO instructions always give instructions for how
> to assemble mini-figs, battle droids, Martians, etc. So I'm not even really
> sure how those would fit into this discussion at all, since they would be built
> from multiple parts in the instructions. The only edge case I see is the
> minifig hands and arms, which come pre-connected to the torso.
I didn't know the *always* part was a given. If so, then there is no issue for
minifigs.
>
> --Travis
Kevin
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