Subject:
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Re: Newsgroup structure: some tough decisions
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.nntp
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Date:
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Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:09:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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1593 times
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In lugnet.admin.nntp, Eric Joslin writes:
> Ok, to be more clear about it: I would rather see this problem dealt with than
> see the group made to try and cause it to happen organically. I certainly
> agree that on topic debates moving to lugnet.off-topic.debate is bad- for one
> thing, that means I am unlikely to see them, as I filter out the whole
> lugnet.off-topic hierarchy!
It's not -just- that, though... It's also that we don't have any "on-topic"
type of debate group, just as for the longest time we didn't have any
"on-topic" fun group. Uhh, that doesn't come out right. OK, what Shiri
Dori wrote here: http://news.lugnet.com/admin/nntp/?n=273 says it better
than I can.
> > Wow, a case in point! -- someone who still detests auctions in this day and
> > age. :)
>
> I don't feel that it makes me a dinosaur or anything.
LOL, no, I didn't mean it that way. :-) I'm just surprised to hear someone
speak up against auctions. I knew there were still people who weren't big
fans of auctions but I haven't heard from any in a long time.
> I simply prefer straight
> sales to the point where I will simply flush anything that is an auction,
> unless it is for a specific hard-to-find thing, or eBay is going to definitely
> get me a better price. I certainly did just win an eBay bid for a non-LEGO
> related item, but that was only because finding it outside eBay would be both
> hard and more expensive.
I detest auctions in that sense too. That is, I detest bidding in them. :)
But I still love them. :) I know what you're saying. :)
> > OK...well, along those lines, as we kicked about in November, we -could-
> > have subgroups of .forsale -- one for auctions and one for straight sales.
> > The sticky issue there, though, is still the issue of whether or not an OBO
> > or an SBA is a regular sale or an auction. It's not something everyone will
> > ever agree upon. However, I think it's impossible for anyone to argue
> > effectively that an OBO or an SBA is a *straight sale* if straight sale
> > means essentially "here's the price, take it or leave it."
>
> Agree strongly. Force it to include a price and be first come first serve, and
> anything else by the definition of the Lugnet TOS belongs in Auction.
That sounds like a great way to define a straight sale! Is everything else
though really an auction? I think a few months ago we also talked briefly
about using a different word besides "auction" -- like "variable" (as
opposed to straight) but needing a clearer word.
I'm looking for a pair of words that means:
* staight / straightforward / simple / non-auction / first-come-first-serve
* variable / complicated / auction / obo / sba / negotiated
> > I'm of two minds on that -- I think I'm more worried about the possible
> > negatives of ignoring (or, rather, not fully supporting in the most natural
> > way) AFOLs in non-English-speaking countries.
>
> How does this not support them?
It doesn't welcome them.
> Nowhere in the Lugnet TOS (that I'm aware of)
> does it say that anything outside the lugnet.loc.* hierarchy must be posted in
> English. If a lugnet.market.loc hierarchy were formed, I feel relatively
> certain that lugnet.market.loc.it (for example) would not be a group posted to
> regularly in English.
True, but it would be more welcoming to .it folks if it were in directly
part of the .loc.it hierarchy, wouldn't it? (Let's hear from some .it
folks?) I'm also really thinking .de here.
Plus, the word "market" is English, which doesn't help friendliness toward
other languages. Other languages might call it .marché (.fr), .markt (.de),
.mercato (.it, .br, .es), etc.
I understand the downsides of confusing regions with language, but unless we
have a .lang hierarchy, .loc is the best we've got. :-)
> > You mean more useful than lugnet.loc.it would/could have been? Let's hear
> > the anecdote. :-)
>
> Here's the post:
>
> http://news.lugnet.com/loc/it/er/bol/?n=4
>
> Looking back at it, I realise that it never got a Lugnet follow-up! But I was
> contacted by someone because I posted it, with many happy effects (on both our
> sides, hopefully, but I can't speak for the other person). I would never have
> posted something like that to a more general lugnet.loc.it group. Therefore,
> the existance of a more specialised group led to a friendship.
That's a great story! And that, in fact, is one of the original reasons
that TONS and TONS of metropolitan groups were set up. It's not because we
thought they'd all be getting tons and tons of traffic right away or even
after 2-3 years, but so that they'd _just be there_ for when they're needed.
Someone even once used I think the .loc.us.ca.sf group to find temporary
lodging with another AFOL when looking for a new job in the SFBay area.
The fact that you wouldn't have felt comfortable posting it to a more
general lugnet.loc.it group (combined with the original reason for their
being there, and things I've heard from other people) says a lot in favor of
keeping the low-level groups. But on the other hand, for some reason I
don't yet understand, people in those areas get annoyed by all the groups.
(Why would this be?)
--Todd
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Newsgroup structure: some tough decisions
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| (...) I'm still not a big fan of auctions. I think/find that auctions in general (and ebay in particular) give the appearance that the market & collectability aspects of the hobby are more important/prominant than the building/community aspects of (...) (24 years ago, 5-Mar-01, to lugnet.admin.nntp)
| | | Re: Newsgroup structure: some tough decisions
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| (...) What about lugnet.general? That's a basic group for talking about LEGO. Human interaction (in an NNTP type forum) only comes in so many flavors, and debate is a big one. (...) Uh. I didn't say that everything else *was* an auction, I just said (...) (24 years ago, 5-Mar-01, to lugnet.admin.nntp)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Newsgroup structure: some tough decisions
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| (...) Ok, to be more clear about it: I would rather see this problem dealt with than see the group made to try and cause it to happen organically. I certainly agree that on topic debates moving to lugnet.off-topic.debate is bad- for one thing, that (...) (24 years ago, 5-Mar-01, to lugnet.admin.nntp)
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