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In lugnet.trains, Brian Kendig writes:
> Are there any web pages which have a study of how to line up Lego train
> layouts with diagonal track?
>
> That is, I want a little more freedom in my layout than forcing it to
> always use ninety-degree curves and parallel/perpendicular tracks, but
> I've found that if I try to be *too* freeform, nothing lines up and I
> end up with two-inch gaps between the pieces I'm trying to connect.
>
> If someone else has already done the math for how to make curves using
> one, two, or three pieces of standard 22.5-degree curved track and then
> get the track to line up properly and snap together firmly without
> having to rely on any 'wiggle room,' that would be a great help to me!
> Thanks!
See the resources in the header of the newsgroup, in particular the .tdl
layouts available at the train depot. Doodle your design in Track Designer
to see if it works first and you'll reduce your frustration.
Now to your particular question,
first, if you do the same diagonal shift on both sides of a loop, you'll
never get out of alignment.
Second, there are configurations that are very very close to working out.
One I (re?)discovered just the other day is useful in making dogbones that
end up with the standard 16 stud on center double track spacing...
Try this in Track Designer
go straight a while... then do one track piece LESS than 3/4 of a circle. Go
one straight. Now go 3 curves in the other direction. Now go straight. You
are 16 studs on center, or very very close, and your track ends are at the
same exact point as the track coming in, or very very close.
There are other ones too. In particular I found a folded dogbone config that
has 45 degree loops at both ends and one fold that worked out pretty close.
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Brian,
In lugnet.trains, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> See the resources in the header of the newsgroup, in particular the .tdl
> layouts available at the train depot. Doodle your design in Track Designer
> to see if it works first and you'll reduce your frustration.
Couldn't agree more!!!
> Try this in Track Designer
>
> go straight a while... then do one track piece LESS than 3/4 of a circle. Go
> one straight. Now go 3 curves in the other direction. Now go straight. You
> are 16 studs on center, or very very close, and your track ends are at the
> same exact point as the track coming in, or very very close.
What Larry has done here works because of the fundamental idea described for
the compact cross-over at the bottom of this page:
http://www.ngltc.org/train_depot/geometry.htm
If you have two opposite curves joined together you can replace them with a
straight as long as you "compress" the layout everywhere else by one
straight along the angle where the two curves met. I know I'm not being too
clear here but its hard to say in words. Here's the original "pure"
construction that underlies Larry's dog-bone:
go straight a while... then do 1/4 circle. Go one straight. Go 1/2 circle.
Now go 1/4 circle in the other direction. Now you have the "pure" 16 studs
on center but your dog-bone looks "chunkier". To get back to Larry's nice
and smooth creation, replace the two opposite-joining curves with a straight
and then remove the straight you added after the first 1/4 circle. This is
the same idea as replacing the two opposite curves in a cross-over with a
straight and then moving the points closer together by one straight. This
is a basic technique I try to use to make my layouts look smoother. I'll
start with a "pure" chunky layout and then try to find ways to replace
opposite-joining curves with straights. Track designer is an essential tool
for this kind of thing!
Also, for some ideas you can check out these track layouts of mine on
brickshelf:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=263408
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=263409
It's two similar variations on the same idea. I'd been trying to come up
with layouts that fit on my kitchen table that are more interesting than
simple ovals and chunky cross-overs. I'm particularly proud of this one
because it uses "pure" construction but doesn't look like it from first
glance (in my opinion, at least). I didn't even need to use the above
mentioned technique for this one.
I did use the compact cross-over in this other one to get this "folded"
figure-eight to fit on my table. Notice the odd spurs I'm stuck with in
order to funnel the track into the cross-track. Not too pretty, but it is
the longest loop I've found for my table, in terms of time that elapses
until the train returns to where it started.
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=263410
Good Luck, Hope this helps...
-Paul
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Thanks for the great follow up, Paul.
In lugnet.trains, Paul S. D'Urbano writes:
> I did use the compact cross-over in this other one to get this "folded"
> figure-eight to fit on my table. Notice the odd spurs I'm stuck with in
> order to funnel the track into the cross-track. Not too pretty, but it is
> the longest loop I've found for my table, in terms of time that elapses
> until the train returns to where it started.
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=263410
I wanted to comment on this one in particular because it's particularly
devious! It REALLY stretches what's possible and shows a good understanding
of the compact crossover geometry relationships. Nice work!
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In lugnet.trains, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> Thanks for the great follow up, Paul.
>
> In lugnet.trains, Paul S. D'Urbano writes:
>
> > I did use the compact cross-over in this other one to get this "folded"
> > figure-eight to fit on my table. Notice the odd spurs I'm stuck with in
> > order to funnel the track into the cross-track. Not too pretty, but it is
> > the longest loop I've found for my table, in terms of time that elapses
> > until the train returns to where it started.
> > http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=263410
>
>
> I wanted to comment on this one in particular because it's particularly
> devious! It REALLY stretches what's possible and shows a good understanding
> of the compact crossover geometry relationships. Nice work!
Thanks Larry,
I know I could have done something prettier with the spurs but I had to
limit myself to the track that came with the MOT kit, plus the cross-track
kit, plus one set of points. I've since found a slightly different
arrangement of the spurs to allow my entire MOT train to be on the track,
split-up among the spurs, while my Santa Fe train runs on the main line.
The reverse is impossible due to the size of the Santa Fe, which makes the
spurs still more decorative than useful. I can use them to play with
re-ordering my MOT cars and swapping my MOT locomotive for the F7, but
otherwise the "hand of GOD" has to reach down from the heavens to get my
full Santa Fe train off the track. Oh well, guess I just have to buy more
track...
By the way, a compliment from you means a lot, thanks again!
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In lugnet.trains, Paul S. D'Urbano writes:
>
> I did use the compact cross-over in this other one to get this "folded"
> figure-eight to fit on my table. Notice the odd spurs I'm stuck with in
> order to funnel the track into the cross-track. Not too pretty, but it is
> the longest loop I've found for my table, in terms of time that elapses
> until the train returns to where it started.
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=263410
>
> Good Luck, Hope this helps...
> -Paul
Really clever!
I purchased an HO sample layout book, and spent some time with Track Designer
trying to convert them into similar versions with Lego track. The 30-degree
crossovers were the hardest to figure out how to emulate. These sorts of books
can be handy for inspiration (for me, anyway).
Now, if only I had enough striaght rails to actually build some of the layouts
I made...
Brian
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In lugnet.trains, Paul S. D'Urbano writes:
>
> I did use the compact cross-over in this other one to get this "folded"
> figure-eight to fit on my table. Notice the odd spurs I'm stuck with in
> order to funnel the track into the cross-track. Not too pretty, but it is
> the longest loop I've found for my table, in terms of time that elapses
> until the train returns to where it started.
> http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=263410
Since a couple people commented on this one I figured I'd mention that over
the weekend I came up with a "folded-figure-eight" that avoids the use of
points on the inner loop but still fits on my table:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=272105
Unfortunately it requires one more curved track than I currently own. I
took the idea a step further and removed the last remaining switch track
(and the extra curve) which makes the layout about one straight wider.
Although it doesn't fit in the grid of baseplates I use to approximate my
table, it does barely fit on my real table. (Rather I should say, the rails
fit but the ends of the sleepers hang over the edges of the table.)
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=28173
I built this one and it uses every piece of track I own, I even have to use
my switches as stand-ins for straights (I guess my scarcity of track reveals
my newbie-ness). I think this may well be the longest continuous (folded)
loop I'll be able to make for my table. I think it really enhances running
a long train like the Super Chief to extend the amount of time before the
train returns to where it started. I know Track Designer creations aren't
the flashiest MOCs in the world, but maybe this will be useful to someone
who has limited space like me and thinks watching a full Santa Fe train
going around the 4561 oval is kind of ridiculous.
I've also included some pictures there showing how the construction is
derived from a basic "pure" structure and then beat down to size by using
the fundamental ideas of the compact cross-over (1). Again, may be useful
to other newbies.
Regards,
Paul
1: A curved track is very-very close to being the same size as two
half-straights joined at 157.5 degrees (180 - 22.5). Besides being the
fundamental reason why the compact cross-over works, it also is why I'm able
to replace the two hi-lighted curves in this picture with a cross-track
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=272006
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