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Evening all,
Just a quick note that I have added a new page at Port Block, providing more
pictures of the Paddle Steamer Enterprise
http://www.hinet.net.au/~rparsons/port/ent/welcome.htm
After all the work being on the Studs site over the past few months, its kinda
nice to be spending some time back at Port Block :-)
Richard
Still baldly going...
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Richard Parsons wrote:
> Evening all,
>
> Just a quick note that I have added a new page at Port Block, providing more
> pictures of the Paddle Steamer Enterprise
Very nice! It looks very customised, which is to be expected of any ship built
on-site like that--fearsome, black-smoke belching monster that it is. Do you have
any closer pictures of the paddle gear, and has the steam engine been detailed?
Nice to know there'll be coal at Port Block. We'll have to visit sometime. ;)
best
Lindsay
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In lugnet.loc.au, Lindsay Frederick Braun writes:
> Nice to know there'll be coal at Port Block. We'll have to visit
> sometime. ;)
And what? Clean out that fearsome nest of pirates lurking nearby? I didn't
think capital ships did well against piracy.
++Lar
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Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> In lugnet.loc.au, Lindsay Frederick Braun writes:
>
> > Nice to know there'll be coal at Port Block. We'll have to visit
> > sometime. ;)
>
> And what? Clean out that fearsome nest of pirates lurking nearby? I didn't
> think capital ships did well against piracy.
There aren't too many cases where capital ships have even come into direct
contact with pirates. One example I can think of might be Britain versus
Zanzibar, 1880--pretty much a war against illicit trade and outright piracy
given haven by the Sultan. British battleships took it apart in the shortest
war on modern record, IIRC about two hours and forty minutes. Of course, the
Sultan was pretty much unable to shoot back, which was the point--even pirates
in the harbour wouldn't have been able to retaliate. Thus we call it a
turkey-shoot. ;)
Capital ships have to be used in a strategic manner against piracy--taking
apart the places where they stop, rest, sell, and steal. But you're right in
that the primary purpose of the line-of-battleship was to destroy other
line-of-battleships; when sent on foreign station, their mere presence was
meant to be intimidating to lesser foes whether of legitimate authority or
not. So it's something of a psychological deterrent too. (And if one never
quite knows where those capital ships will be, they could be in for a nasty
surprise.)
Operationally, capital ships of earlier eras pretty much mounted the same
class of weapons and represented a similar form that pirate ships might have,
and so were useless because they were slower and had very limited weapons
ranges--a pirate could turn tail and flee. Modern battleships don't have
quite the same limitations; even as early as the 1890s, if you could see it,
you could generally also hit it. The late-19th-century warship also became a
steel and high-explosive monster carrying 800 to 1200 men, which is a technos
that even an exceptional pirate wouldn't have access to.
But if you're going to go chasing pirates, then yes, you need something
smaller and more nimble. _Gloire_ might represent the sort of ship that
chased down privateers in the Atlantic during the US Civil War, as just one
example, but to stamp out piracy totally one needs to make the lifestyle
unprofitable. That means also making it undesirable for non-pirates to
consort with pirates, even innocently, and thus making it impossible for
pirates ever to light to sell booty or get a good night's sleep. Even pirates
need a few friendly ports!
best
Lindsay
(I was referring more to cluttering up the harbour and being a hazard to
navigation at Port Block, however. ;) )
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In lugnet.loc.au, Lindsay Frederick Braun writes:
> Very nice! It looks very customised, which is to be expected
> of any ship built on-site like that--fearsome, black-smoke
> belching monster that it is. Do you have any closer pictures
> of the paddle gear, and has the steam engine been detailed?
>
> Nice to know there'll be coal at Port Block. We'll have to
> visit sometime. ;)
Sorry old man, not really an interiors kind of guy me. I had four different
goes at paddle gear and wasn't happy with any of them, before I realised that
none of my efforts could be seen through the fairing and grille around the
wheel. Now, look ma, no wheels!
And there is a steam engine-ish lump in about the right place, but its not a
patch on the engines you've put together. Just a red glow in the right place
and a governor-y looking attachment on the top up the other end from the smoke
stack.
And at this stage we're mainly burning wood. Bring some coal with you when
you come ;-)
Richard
Still baldly going...
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In lugnet.loc.au, Richard Parsons writes:
> > Nice to know there'll be coal at Port Block. We'll have to
> > visit sometime. ;)
>
> Sorry old man, not really an interiors kind of guy me. I had four different
> goes at paddle gear and wasn't happy with any of them, before I realised that
> none of my efforts could be seen through the fairing and grille around the
> wheel. Now, look ma, no wheels!
> And there is a steam engine-ish lump in about the right place, but its not a
> patch on the engines you've put together. Just a red glow in the right place
> and a governor-y looking attachment on the top up the other end from the smoke
> stack.
> And at this stage we're mainly burning wood. Bring some coal with you when
> you come ;-)
Wouldn't that be like sending coal to Newcastle?
James (who fondly recalls the sight of the Enterprise stuck on a sandbank...)
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James Howse wrote:
> In lugnet.loc.au, Richard Parsons writes:
> > And at this stage we're mainly burning wood. Bring some coal with you when
> > you come ;-)
>
> Wouldn't that be like sending coal to Newcastle?
Hey, the RN used to send fuel oil to Aden until the Second World War, so anything
is possible. ("In a bureaucracy, anything is possible contra logic") I think it
has more to do with economies of scale, in that sending anthracite from Britain to
Oceana by ship is cheaper than setting up a local operation to mine coal of unknown
quantity and quality locally. (Historical note: This was true only until proper
geological surveys were carried out at the end of the 1800s, which revealed the
nature of local mineral wealth in colonial regions.)
> James (who fondly recalls the sight of the Enterprise stuck on a sandbank...)
First, the Tholian Web...now the Sinister Sandbar? ;)
best
Lindsay
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"Mr L F Braun" <braunli1@pilot.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:39863935.1D54F3E4@pilot.msu.edu...
> (Historical note: This was true only until proper
> geological surveys were carried out at the end of the 1800s, which • revealed the
> nature of local mineral wealth in colonial regions.)
For those who are interested...
According to my 'History of Coal Mining in Australia'. (Hey! I'm studying
Mining Engineering, I'm allowed to have it!), Coal was first mined in
Newcastle, sometime prior to 1798. (When Australia's first coal export
occurred). The seam was discovered by passing shipmen, due to having an
exposed seam. This was also the case with the Wollongong seams.
The first coal mine discovered by geological survey, was the Balmain seam,
which began operations in mid 1820's.
later,
David Drew.
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David Drew wrote:
> "Mr L F Braun" <braunli1@pilot.msu.edu> wrote in message
> news:39863935.1D54F3E4@pilot.msu.edu...
>
> > (Historical note: This was true only until proper
> > geological surveys were carried out at the end of the 1800s, which • revealed the
> > nature of local mineral wealth in colonial regions.)
>
> For those who are interested...
>
> According to my 'History of Coal Mining in Australia'. (Hey! I'm studying
> Mining Engineering, I'm allowed to have it!), Coal was first mined in
> Newcastle, sometime prior to 1798. (When Australia's first coal export
> occurred). The seam was discovered by passing shipmen, due to having an
> exposed seam. This was also the case with the Wollongong seams.
I'd always been under the impression that the grade of coal in the exposed
seams wasn't quite up to RN standards (they only want the best anthracite,
have to keep that smoke down to a minimum!)--but I may be wrong, because I'm
going off the geology of other continents (South Asia and Africa).
> The first coal mine discovered by geological survey, was the Balmain seam,
> which began operations in mid 1820's.
Whereabouts is that? I didn't know any extensive geological surveys were made
outside the immediate areas of major settlement (~80km from shore) until
nearer the end of the 19th century. That's kind of interesting, given that
most of the (future) US territory wasn't surveyed by that time!
Magnificent that they've actually got a book on the history of coal mining in
a specific region; everything I've read is horribly steeped in generalisations
across huge swaths of territory.
best
LFB
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"Mr L F Braun" <braunli1@pilot.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:39892EAA.BF50F2E3@pilot.msu.edu...
> I'd always been under the impression that the grade of coal in the exposed
> seams wasn't quite up to RN standards (they only want the best anthracite,
> have to keep that smoke down to a minimum!)
As far as I'm aware, that wasn't a problem, as steam ships were pretty damn
thin on the ground back then. Coal was used for heating and furnaces,
mostly. Besides, only the couple of metres of coal which is closest to the
surface suffer from environmental damage. Once you tunnel far enough into
the seam, it's up to its full grade.
> > The first coal mine discovered by geological survey, was the Balmain • seam,
> > which began operations in mid 1820's.
>
> Whereabouts is that? I didn't know any extensive geological surveys were • made
> outside the immediate areas of major settlement (~80km from shore) until
> nearer the end of the 19th century. That's kind of interesting, given • that
> most of the (future) US territory wasn't surveyed by that time!
Balmain is about 5 km due west of Sydney Cove, which is the original Sydney
settlement. In fact, they were mining for a period of time directly under
Sydney Harbour. The mine closed about 1930's, I think.
> Magnificent that they've actually got a book on the history of coal mining • in
> a specific region; everything I've read is horribly steeped in • generalisations
> across huge swaths of territory.
Coal mining has always been very big in Australia, (still is the single
biggest industry, in terms of $), and the AusIMM (Australian Institute of
Mining and Metallurgy), is always keen on printing books. :) The book I'm
referring to is very good on detail, since there are only a few major
coal-mining areas, and most of them have a well-documented history.
later,
David Drew.
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