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In lugnet.lego, David Laswell wrote:
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Now, add to this the fact that most current custom part manufacturers are
making parts that are small enough that they can save production costs by
setting up multi-part molds, whereas the only track geometries that I can see
being able to take advantage of that capability are stubbies (center of one
tie to the next, either curved or straight). And of course you have people
who wouldnt buy them no matter how well theyre made for the simple reason
that they arent official LEGO, or because they wouldnt even be aware that
custom track designs were even being made (essentially, anyone who isnt aware
of ILTCO). Its definitely possible, but the costs would be prohibitively high
for most people to even consider, and thats just for all-plastic track, not
even getting into the application of sheet metal rail coverings (which require
both custom cutting dies and machines to attach them to the plastic bases).
Fans will probably love the idea of being able to buy new 9v track geometries,
but many will balk at the idea of paying even twice what The LEGO Company
would have likely charged for the same part, and thats assuming a custom
manufacturer could even keep costs that low (I doubt its possible without
intentionally taking a loss on the project).
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Funny how we as AFOLs have a hard time thinking outside the box. We
automatically assume that new track geometry necessarily requires large
sectional track pieces. The old 4.5-volt/12-volt system had separate ties
(sleepers in Europe), track and power sections (12-volt). Personally, I liked
this way better, even if it required quite a bit of time to set up. When the
9-volt system initially came out, I saw the track as a juniorization of the
train system.
It would probably be rather easy to make moulded ties with the proper studs in
which we could slip in standard model railway track (just the metal part) of the
appropriate size. This track is sold in bulk. Special tools called rail
benders allow you to curve it to whatever radius you want, bringing about those
large-radius curves everyone has been waiting for for so long. Where it gets a
bit complicated is for the switches and crossovers. These would probably have
to be hand-crafted. However, there are several talented people that modify
LEGOs standard track that would be up to the challenge. Heck, they could even
make transition pieces to match up this track with standard 9-volt track.
As for power trucks, check out whats available for standard model train
hobbyists; http://nwsl.com/Catalog/pg025-cat4-06c-v0605.pdf Im sure that
they would be more than happy to make a modified version for us if theres
sufficient interest.
So the future isnt as bleak as it would seem. If we want, we can continue with
our hobby for a long time. Hell, some people (mostly in Europe) still continue
on with their 12-volt trains almost 20 years after it was discontinued. It will
probably mean cutting a few strings with the LEGO company but that could help
the hobby grow.
DA
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In lugnet.lego, Daniel Aubin wrote:
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Funny how we as AFOLs have a hard time thinking outside the box. We
automatically assume that new track geometry necessarily requires large
sectional track pieces. The old 4.5-volt/12-volt system had separate ties
(sleepers in Europe), track and power sections (12-volt). Personally, I
liked this way better, even if it required quite a bit of time to set up.
When the 9-volt system initially came out, I saw the track as a
juniorization of the train system.
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Hehe, so Im not alone on that one :-)
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It would probably be rather easy to make moulded ties with the proper studs
in which we could slip in standard model railway track (just the metal part)
of the appropriate size. This track is sold in bulk. Special tools called
rail benders allow you to curve it to whatever radius you want, bringing
about those large-radius curves everyone has been waiting for for so long.
Where it gets a bit complicated is for the switches and crossovers. These
would probably have to be hand-crafted. However, there are several talented
people that modify LEGOs standard track that would be up to the challenge.
Heck, they could even make transition pieces to match up this track with
standard 9-volt track.
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A guy in the Netherlands is just trying this, even before this message of
discontinuation of the 9V line appeared.
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So the future isnt as bleak as it would seem. If we want, we can continue
with our hobby for a long time. Hell, some people (mostly in Europe) still
continue on with their 12-volt trains almost 20 years after it was
discontinued. It will probably mean cutting a few strings with the LEGO
company but that could help the hobby grow.
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About 5 years ago, I even started with Lego trains that were discontinued
23 years before. And I will be using them for a long time in the future.
Niels
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In lugnet.lego, Daniel Aubin wrote:
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In lugnet.lego, David Laswell wrote:
|
Now, add to this the fact that most current custom part manufacturers are
making parts that are small enough that they can save production costs by
setting up multi-part molds, whereas the only track geometries that I can
see being able to take advantage of that capability are stubbies (center of
one tie to the next, either curved or straight). And of course you have
people who wouldnt buy them no matter how well theyre made for the simple
reason that they arent official LEGO, or because they wouldnt even be
aware that custom track designs were even being made (essentially, anyone
who isnt aware of ILTCO). Its definitely possible, but the costs would be
prohibitively high for most people to even consider, and thats just for
all-plastic track, not even getting into the application of sheet metal rail
coverings (which require both custom cutting dies and machines to attach
them to the plastic bases). Fans will probably love the idea of being able
to buy new 9v track geometries, but many will balk at the idea of paying
even twice what The LEGO Company would have likely charged for the same
part, and thats assuming a custom manufacturer could even keep costs that
low (I doubt its possible without intentionally taking a loss on the
project).
|
Funny how we as AFOLs have a hard time thinking outside the box. We
automatically assume that new track geometry necessarily requires large
sectional track pieces. The old 4.5-volt/12-volt system had separate ties
(sleepers in Europe), track and power sections (12-volt). Personally, I
liked this way better, even if it required quite a bit of time to set up.
When the 9-volt system initially came out, I saw the track as a
juniorization of the train system.
It would probably be rather easy to make moulded ties with the proper studs
in which we could slip in standard model railway track (just the metal part)
of the appropriate size. This track is sold in bulk. Special tools called
rail benders allow you to curve it to whatever radius you want, bringing
about those large-radius curves everyone has been waiting for for so long.
Where it gets a bit complicated is for the switches and crossovers. These
would probably have to be hand-crafted. However, there are several talented
people that modify LEGOs standard track that would be up to the challenge.
Heck, they could even make transition pieces to match up this track with
standard 9-volt track.
As for power trucks, check out whats available for standard model train
hobbyists; http://nwsl.com/Catalog/pg025-cat4-06c-v0605.pdf Im sure that
they would be more than happy to make a modified version for us if theres
sufficient interest.
So the future isnt as bleak as it would seem. If we want, we can continue
with our hobby for a long time. Hell, some people (mostly in Europe) still
continue on with their 12-volt trains almost 20 years after it was
discontinued. It will probably mean cutting a few strings with the LEGO
company but that could help the hobby grow.
DA
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Now that is kind of what I was advocating in my post.
The whole LEGO system is a modular system--why not come up with modular way of
creating tracks and motor housings or whatever using perhaps the system as the
glue and outside parts as part of the solution. Now I am not advocating using
MEGA Blocks--that is a sacrilege--lol. As many of yall know, I am not really a
builder, but I do try to think out of the box --it is more fun. Most of my ideas
end up in the trash can--but every now and again--even I can come up with a good
feasible one.
This solution to me as an outsider seems like a good one to at least explore.
All the track stuff, transformers, and tools, etc. has been done by the real
model railroading people--just need the right interface between LEGO and the
outside world.And then the outside world becomes the inside world, and
inside world the outside one. Because it is obviously a lot more fun for the
average person to play with LEGO than all that train stuff.
maybe http://www.emachineshop.com/ might be a solution
It is obvious that mastering their software and designing the parts is a snap
to many of yall in the community. Create the part, push the button, pick the
production method, and get an instant quote. It might be too expensive--or it
might not. Who knows until one tries. And no cost to find out.
Now I of course might be missing the whole argument that Daniel was making, but
it seems that you just come up with few standard LEGO type custom parts that
would create the track using existing outside off the shelf parts. A tie, a
clip of some kind. As long as make it modular, it seems that future itereations
could then be added on for future needs. Just think it through so that in the
future there are pathways for modifications.
Again, I may be missing something--but I do not think so.
I really think John Neals statement is on the money:
But now, the canard of purity has finally been dashed for good. Because its
either accepting that reality, or leave the hobby (with purity intact)
altogether. Some have already stated their intentions to do just that, and
thats fine. Personally, I believe it will be liberating. So, Ill find train
parts, electronics, etc, made by companies who were willing to produce them, and
not ask or rely on TLG to make versions which need to double as a childs toy,
too.
It sounds heretical, I know, but one day we will all laugh. Im laughing
already:-)
What puzzles me is why it was heretical in the first place.
lol
Tommy ARmstrong
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In lugnet.lego, Tommy Armstrong wrote:
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I really think John Neals statement is on the money:
But now, the canard of purity has finally been dashed for good. Because its
either accepting that reality, or leave the hobby (with purity intact)
altogether. Some have already stated their intentions to do just that, and
thats fine. Personally, I believe it will be liberating. So, Ill find train
parts, electronics, etc, made by companies who were willing to produce them,
and not ask or rely on TLG to make versions which need to double as a childs
toy, too.
It sounds heretical, I know, but one day we will all laugh. Im laughing
already:-)
What puzzles me is why it was heretical in the first place.
lol
Tommy ARmstrong
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I can only speak for myself, but part of the fun, for me at least, is the
challenge of staying within the confines of the Lego product. If I wanted to
build track, etc. from other items, or do my own molding, Id work in N or HO
scale (actually, I do work in n-scale, but l-gauge is way more fun).
The other aspect that Ive come to enjoy, since joining my local LUG, is being a
part of something unique at train shows. Its fun to be able to tell visitors
that yes, the entire layout really is Lego, including the track and
transformers, and no, were not just covering up O-gauge track with brick.
While Im sad to see an end to 9V, Im glad we got a definitive answer from the
company, and Im curious to see how the new product line will work out. It may
work out great, and Ill be able to continue telling visitors what I tell them
now, or I may find that the product doesnt work for me, and Ill have to move
on. Part of the fun may be lost, but I can always find other hobbies.
-Elroy
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In lugnet.lego, Daniel Aubin wrote:
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Funny how we as AFOLs have a hard time thinking outside the box. We
automatically assume that new track geometry necessarily requires large
sectional track pieces.
|
Well, simple straights and curves could easily be made with flexible rails and
individual ties, but many of the specialized track pieces that seem to be of
real interest to the hobby are complex crossovers and points. Those would
require complex molded bases. Also, the loose rail format would likely be much
more suitable for long-term setup, where prefab track sections make setup a
breeze for a quick show. Note that traditional model railroaders dont ever
actually have to set up loose track at a show, as the track will be preattached
to large landscape sections, and the only thing they ever need to do to get the
track working right is to clip the gaps between each section of landscape.
Loose rail track also wont visually match the 9v stuff, and will actually look
more mismatched than using grey and bley track together.
It is certainly an option that would help keep costs down, though. You will
likely find that there are people who would rather have one format over the
other, and I suspect it wont be anywhere close to unanimous.
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