Subject:
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Re: "Non-Robolab" LabView functions
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics.rcx.robolab
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Date:
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Sun, 30 Nov 2003 16:37:56 GMT
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Viewed:
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9883 times
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In lugnet.robotics.rcx.robolab, Claude Baumann wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics.rcx.robolab, Don Stauffer wrote:
> > I've been experimenting with some of the LabView icons available in
> > "Investigator" mode in Robolab (under the "hourglass" item on the outermost
> > menu). They seem to cause some odd behavior sometimes. It seems like it's
> > especially a problem if one of the terms comes from a "container". For
> > instance, in one case I used the little "-1" triangular icon to decrement a
> > value stored in a "generic container". The decrement was in a Sub VI, along
> > with a couple of LCD display icons, each followed by a 1-second pause. The
> > container contents was set in another Sub VI. Both Sub VIs were called from
> > another Sub VI.
>
> ------------------->snip
> I've not had the time yet to analyze the patch. Seems that you replace the first
> firmware handler.
>
> In Robolab the firmware is found under ..ROBOLAB\Engine\RCX1\Text. They simply
> have changed the extension .lgo to .txt and call it firmware.txt . Be sure you
> patch the correct firmware-version.
Still waiting to hear from Dick about that.
> As to LabVIEW behind ROBOLAB, you must be aware that ROBOLAB is in fact a
> "code-generator" creating LASM-code from icons. This is comparable to RIS, but
> much more efficient. The power of this graphical tool is that kids and
> youngsters easily may program the RCX without dealing with text-programming
> orthography. Of course the icons must be used correctly -also a kind of grammar-
> but much easier to understand and to use.
I disagree that it's easier to understand and use. Possibly easier to learn or
figure out without documentation, up to a point. But ease of learning is not
the same as ease of use.
Graphical tools may be helpful for interface design for a program to be run in a
graphical environment, but they are a poor choice for other aspects of
programming.
> Another advantage is the completeness
> of ROBOLAB in programming, evaluating, debugging, publishing. This makes it the
> best didactical tool for Mindstorms in schools. (Note also that LabVIEW runs on
> all platforms.)
LabView is a well-written and powerful tool, though I wish it didn't extend the
graphical programming paradigm beyond the "front panel". Fortunately, though,
it does at least offer some opportunity to specify some text-based constructs.
It's just an entirely inappropriate base for an RCX programming system. The RCX
is a non-graphical device with very limited I/O, so even the value of graphical
programming for screen interface is gone. "Wiring" together program statements
just becomes so much spaghetti!
> If you try to use LabVIEW-functions like the triangular decrement icon, you must
> understand that these functions applie to the PC-programm, e.a. the
> code-generation process. So the decrement icon will act on the way, the
> container-icon is understood by ROBOLAB, not on the container-value itself while
> the RCX-program will be executed later.
Sounds like a C preprocessor. So, only use them for constants?
> This sounds a bit confusing. Perhaps you
> should try to find more tutorial information on the Web about LabVIEW in
> general.
I looked at everything available before asking. The LabView manual is
comprehensive but doesn't have anything to do with the RCX. The Robolab
"manual" is very limited and vaguely worded.
> In any case LabVIEW is one of the most sophisticated
> programming-environments, especially the new version LabVIEW 7 Express. If you
> start playing around with it, you'll discover tremendous possibilities in
> RCX-programming. Note that ROBOLAB (2.5) is based on a student's edition of
> LabVIEW 6.
LabView is good for what it was written for: simulating and controlling lab
instruments.
<snip>
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: "Non-Robolab" LabView functions
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| (...) Disagree. It's a matter of habitudes. Once you're familiar with the whole environment, you may write extremely complex programs without getting lost. For example, in our recent "Mars-mission" telerobotics project the complete programming -the (...) (21 years ago, 30-Nov-03, to lugnet.robotics.rcx.robolab)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: "Non-Robolab" LabView functions
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| (...) ---...--->snip I've not had the time yet to analyze the patch. Seems that you replace the first firmware handler. In Robolab the firmware is found under ..ROBOLAB\Engine\RCX1\Text. They simply have changed the extension .lgo to .txt and call (...) (21 years ago, 30-Nov-03, to lugnet.robotics.rcx.robolab)
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