Subject:
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Re: Robolab as a tool for teaching programming
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:17:03 GMT
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Viewed:
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4101 times
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In lugnet.robotics, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> On Wed, March 16, 2005 6:34 pm, John Hansen said:
> > In lugnet.robotics, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> > > 3) I think someone who can create a flowchart could program in Robolab
> > > better/faster/easier than they could program in NQC.
> >
> > I don't think pre-existing flowcharting skills will benefit a Robolab newcomer ...
> > On the other hand, pre-existing flowcharting skills will benefit an NQC newcomer
snip....
There must be some serious reasons, why ROBOLAB has won so many international
didactical software prizes.
One often repeated reason is the fact that ROBOLAB includes absolute fascinating
datalogging facilities. This makes of the RCX a cheap, easy to manipulate and
powerful device that can be used in physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology,
even archeology... to collect data and work with it. (By the way, we actually
are working on a new project that consists in using a high sensitive
magneto-resistive sensor with the RCX-datalog to scan a certain area where we
know there is a gallo-roman villa. Then we plan to upload the data with advanced
ROBOLAB (Investigator) to return a 3D-picture and hope we will see a beautiful
pattern of the villa.)
Another ROBOLAB feature is the web-publishing part that includs printing and
automatic picture and html-page generation. Here a tachometer example that we
posted to the web already two years ago :
http://www.convict.lu/Jeunes/Robo_Soccer/zllb_05032002_190155/index.htm
As to real-time polling, have a look at the two pictures:
http://www.convict.lu/Jeunes/poll_data1.gif and
http://www.convict.lu/Jeunes/poll_data2.gif
The data on the graph was produced with the improvised tachometer shown above: a
LEGO motor that is coupled to sensor1-port and used as a generator. With ROBOLAB
G-code (in fact LabVIEW code) you can do anything you like with your real-time
data: Fast Fourier Transform, integration, differentiation, copying, saving to
disk, printing...
================
As to the endless, boring discussion about nqc - ROBOLAB, "real" programming,
"good" programming, "that's not what programming is about"..., 30000.. 20000000
lines of code...
Some reflections:
Professional programmers react in the same way other job-representatives do, if
anyone tries to walk on their platform. A skilled carpenter will laugh about the
amateurism of the hobbyist who is trying to build a desk, and he won't even have
a look at the realization, being convinced that only a certified skilled
craftsman is able to do the job correctly. Perhaps you are good in history. If
so, you should have a look back. When Diderot started his Encyclopedia, his idea
was to collect the knowledge of the world and bring it into the reach of any
"citoyen" (=French citizen, after the French Revolution). But he met serious
opposition from the different corporations and guilds. Example: he published the
whole production process of rosaries, which before was held half-secret to
protect the professionel craftsmen. Revealing secrets of production isn't what
professionels want.
It is almost obvious, that ROBOLAB programs are considered -if not simply
ignored by skilled professionals- as pure programming amateurism. May be ! But
let's make things clear: ROBOLAB is an advanced LabVIEW application, and LabVIEW
is spreading all over the globe as the most powerful programming tool there is.
The main lesson we can learn from LabVIEW is, that there has been a change of
the paradigm in what computer-programming means. The question is very simple:
can we reduce costs through bringing programming into the reach of less
specialized skilled programmers. LabVIEW makes programming easy, even for people
that are only occasional programmers. And LabVIEW generates robust code from the
graphical code. This is the horror for those who think that they are
"irremplaçables" (French). What else do we gain with LabVIEW: good programs are
produced in considerable shorter time.
ROBOLAB is a perfect teaching tool. The flow-chart like structure brings robot
programming into the reach of kids. I have been teaching programming for over 20
years now. I myself started with Fortran and walked through BASIC, PASCAL, C,
Java. I did lot's of Assembler, HP35, 65, 41, 6800... etc. I arrived at LabVIEW
and would NEVER go back. So, where did a 6 month teaching of Delphi end: in a
student's frustrating half of a graphical calculator that crashed, when you
pushed two buttons instead of one. So was my parallel course in electronics: you
have a blinking LED and a audio-amplifier. But, since we are doing the
Mindstorms stuff, my secondary students (14-20 year-old) have produced sensors,
robots and programs that normally only would have been done on university level.
THIS is the incredible story! Many of them, who have left my boarding-school are
doing studies of electronics, mechatronics, computer sciences etc. And looking
back, what do they tell me or write to me? "Thanks !! The things I experienced
in your class opened the door for my future studies and carreer." None of the
realized sensors, programs, robots are perfect. And THIS doesn't matter at all.
Because the bulk is: "You students, have the capacity to do it! Just do it. And
learn from your mistakes." And honestly I dislike people telling them: "What
you've done is non-professional. It isn't right programming. Hmmm, you know
"real world applications are almost never that simple"...this simply drives me
sick.
What we need in education are people who know to motivate and spread the
interest for the growing complexity of the technical world. We really don't need
those telling us and the students who are hesitating about their future that
programming or robot-building or other sciences are reserved for the few skilled
who know that C or anything else is the only truth. And believe me, I'm
convinced that C is the best programming language.
There is one good story that illustrates all this: the best specialist of
ancient Maja culture a certain Thompson, I think was his name, absolutely was
convinced that the Maja symbols were NO writings. As the most "érudit" he
inhibited all research in that direction during about 40 years. But -in 1990?- a
young fellow of 17 years decrypted the symbols as written text. A friend of mine
uses to say that the most difficult problems have been solved by people to whom
the specialists had forgotten to tell that the problem was unsolvable. Our duty
in education is to support those talents, if ever we have the honor to meet
them. We also may "shut them down".
One last point: did you ever meet a dyslexic programmer? Since we have ROBOLAB
and LabVIEW, yes I did and I constantly do. There are some very talented ones.
They would never have adventured into programming with text languages.
Claude Baumann
author of Ultimate ROBOLAB
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Robolab as a tool for teaching programming
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| (...) Note that the LEGO Company appears to agree strongly with you. From a press release I just read: ---...--- NEWS RELEASE – March 28, 2005 – NI today announced The LEGO Company uses the NI LabVIEW graphical development environment and NI (...) (20 years ago, 29-Mar-05, to lugnet.robotics)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Robolab as a tool for teaching programming
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| On Wed, March 16, 2005 6:34 pm, John Hansen said: (...) ... (...) wow. I guess I don't have a reply to that. My wife (not a programmer) has used Robolab. She said it was like making a flowchart. I assume you're suggesting Robolab has no flow of (...) (20 years ago, 17-Mar-05, to lugnet.robotics)
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