Subject:
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Re: was (RCX+PC=Rubik's Cube Solver) RCX & VC
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:07:31 GMT
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Viewed:
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151 times
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Hi Eric,
first of all, i understand your motivation and i think it's a nice approach to
lego !!
I've only got some annotations.
When only using "out of the box" stuff you should let the other people know
this point of view.
(Other people might have another point of view and would be happy to know how
it works. I'm one of them)
If i had known this, i wouldn't have posted the last message.
But without this point of view, what i mentioned is possible. :)
(BTW is editing myprog.txt OK for you ? Then it works without NQC ;-) )
Hmmm, you're not modifying pieces, i also don't (except one time in a contest)
:(
LEGO does !!
I saw some work from the danish lego crew with lots of modified pieces. :)
You're not a purist here, or ? ;-)
Okay, be a purist. Knowing that you're a purist i like your inventions even
more.
Regards
one of the outlaws, ;-)
Rainer
In lugnet.robotics.vc, Eric Sophie writes:
> Hi, Rainer - I too disagree with some points you mention:
>
> In lugnet.robotics.vc, Rainer Balzerowski writes:
> > Hi Eric,
> >
> > I disagree in some points.
> >
> > In lugnet.robotics, Eric Sophie writes:
> > > Ok, VC has Motor control, Simply choose a Vision Template and build your
> > > command stack using the RCX Motor control.
>
>
> > Please notice, that you can build your own vision templates.
> > http://www.plazaearth.com/usr/gasperi/viscommand.htm
>
> I am aware of this but it has no bearing on the subject, pretty cool though...
> but it's not out of the box and I'm a purist.
> > > The RCX cannot run normal RCX
> > > code while VC makes use of the RCX,
>
> > That's not true ! The VC software downloads a little program (myprog.txt) to
> > your RCX. This little program reacts to (8) IR messages send from your IR • tower
> > to your RCX in that way you decided in the VC software (e.g. brake, play • tone,
> > ...)
> > You can download a NQC program to any slot you want except of slot 5, which • the
> > VC software uses. If you edit the myprog.txt, you can switch to one of the • left
> > 4 slots and automatically execute the NQC program located there.
> > This was discused here before and Michael Gasperi puts this hack on his • hombrew
> > sensor site. Have a look there, it's described in detail.
> > http://www.plazaearth.com/usr/gasperi/viscommand.htm
>
> That's interesting but I won't entertain NQC because it's not out of the
> box, I'm a purist. Also, are you saying that while VC operates slot 5, it
> can activate (let's say) slot 4 and run the two programs simultaneously?
>
> Again this is skirting around the usability and haking more than was intended.
> Don't get me wrong it's totally interesting, I just think people have a
> tendency to pick things apart before they completely outgrow what RCX code
> and what it can do.
>
> Look at me, I made a fully articulated Robot armature. It contains nearly 30
> motors. I personnaly have the desire to create witin the system. That's the
> challenge. Makes me wonder if anyone has made a super-robot and then decided
> to modify it's controll language because they simply outgrew it. I have not
> seen this, so I'm left with the opinion that folks have just got the inkling
> to take apart the RCX and it's control language to extend it, either for
> more usability or to produce effects not seen within the original RCX code.
>
> Please forgive me for what I'm about to type, I never wanted to make my
> opinions public about this subject, but, I belive that one should completely
> master Robot building and RCX code before decideing that the original
> programming is not enough. While I'm not knocking the ability or designs of
> anyone, you oughta at least give it a shot, some people say that RCX code is
> not versetile enough or that it's to hard to use, I agree it has
> limitations, and it's kinda tough at first, but so is Lego as a whole, it's
> the Challange of building the approximation of a given device of design,
> hardly anybody likes or approves of "Spuds" or "POOPs" , and they don't want
> to see to many single purpose pre-made pcs. because the fun of building one
> from scratch is what it's all about.
>
> Alternate control program writing is a fine thing, it's just not for me, I
> think it's a past time all to it'self, and not necc. a by-product of the
> shortcommings of RCX code, let's face it somebody figures out how the
> internals of the RCX code works, and they recognize common software
> pricipals, and decide - Hey I can alter this and make more of it. That's
> cool, but my focus is Lego and not re-writing what came out of the Box. I
> think one should reach a platuea in building, because that's the nitty
> gritty of the creation, not haking into the software and writing another
> version. The Harshest thing I say to those who did, what did you build? did
> you stick wheels on an RCX and then out grow it's cababilities? Make a Human
> size Robot and mayby I'll think different.
>
> I know this makes me sound like a big head, It's just that I'm a purist all
> the way......
>
> NO cut or modified Pcs.
> NO Glue or Lubricants.
> Nothing other than what Lego produces.
>
> This comes from the Heart and from years of doing exhibits and diplays,
> Folks always ask: Do you use glue? Have you tried to use stronger non lego
> motors?
>
> I'm on a mission to make any design completely within the system without
> frankly, "Cheating"............too each his own. In the end we only should
> judge oursevles. I guess if it's okay for you, then go for it. I like trying
> to figure out a way that stays in the system.
>
> Same goes for Homebrew sensors! Very cool, but I would'nt use them, they
> ain't made by Lego!
>
> Sorry to open this up on a reply, I just feel strongly about these things,
> but then again it's all good because it embodies creativity and finding a
> way to make things happen. I just don't want a hodge podge of home made
> sensors and alternate program writing to be included in my Robot. Part of
> the joy is having people know that they to could just go to the store (alot
> of times) and make one just like it! 100% off the shelf!
>
>
>
> > > nor can the RCX pass sensor readings to
> > > VC. VC does not down load the command stack program to the RCX. Instead VC
> > > makes use of the IR Tower and sends the commands real time. So you need
> > > "line of sight" when using the RCX to control motors with VC. You can
> > > "Interlace" other RCX Sensors to the motion controlled by VC.
> > >
> > > Example.
> > >
> > > I have 1 RCX controlling the up/down motion of the head of my Robot - Motor
> > > port A, this receives it's instructions from VC via the IR tower. RCX 2 has
> > > a Rotation Sensor conected to the aforementioned drive system. When RCX 2
> > > detects Rotational values, RCX 2 triggers one of it's Motor ports causing
> > > the Head to turn Left/Right.
> > >
> > > Also, I have used VC and one RCX in the following Manner.
> > >
> > > I stand in front of the Robot. I extend my arm outwards, and move my arm to
> > > the left, the Robot "sees" this and directs motor control to move it's Left
> > > arm in the same manner. When I moved my arm to the Right, the Robot Moves
> > > it's Arm to the right in the same way.
> > >
> > > Limitations:
> > >
> > > Real time, Line of Sight required between the RCX and Vision Command/ IR • Tower.
> > > No sensor inputs from the RCX to VC. unless you direct a motor port to turn
> > > on a Light and set one of the vision fields to watch for light. - or rig a
> > > motor to diplay color or cause motion.
> > > Only the Three (3) Motors ports can be controlled from the RCX by VC.
> > > RCX can only "Run" the current VC program in Real time, no programming or
> > > use of the 5 program slots is supported.
> >
> > See above and Michael Gasperis homepage !
> > http://www.plazaearth.com/usr/gasperi/viscommand.htm
> > >
> > > Some of these things you may or may not know about VC, I would say that it's
> > > a trully great inovation! One that has brought more life into My latest
> > > Robot than I ever imagined! BUY ONE !!!!!
> > >
> > > Please feel free to ask if you still have questions, but please be specific
> > > because I'm not sure if you know some of these things or not. I rather be
> > > helpful than be redundant.....
> > >
> > > Good luck!!!
> > >
> > >
> > > VC and RCX in New Robot:
> > > http://brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=39692
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rainer
> >
> > P.S.: I had a look at your robots, incredible !! Do you earn money with this • ?
>
> Finally, thank you, I worked very hard to produce this Robot , I'm glad you
> like it. I have only done a couple of shows with this one because it's so
> new, I do sell pix of my Robots from time to time, so I make money like that
> as an Art form. Also I used to work at the local Science center as a
> resident Artist, so I made money that way doing lectures and exhibits, I
> have also recently been offered consultant work for a $100 a day to show
> kids in schools the principals of mechanical design, kinda an extention of
> the Dacta curriculum. Thanks.......... Eric Sophie
>
> Any bees nests that I have stirred up, well, I'm waiting for you in
> .off-topic debate....... chow
>
> Barring the alternate solutions you had mentioned, and solely comming from
> "out of the Box" would you say I was on the mark as far as functionality?
>
> C-ya
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