Subject:
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Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 21 Jan 2001 16:18:08 GMT
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Viewed:
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1782 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jon Kozan writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jon Kozan writes:
> > > Perhaps it would be helpful to break apart the different things that are
> > > ascribed to the term "evolution."
> > >
> > > Common usage of the word "evolution" is the idea that living things in our
> > > world have come into being through unguided naturalistic processes
> > > starting from a primeval mass of subatomic particles and radiation, over
> > > approximately 20 billion years.
I missed this point the first time.
I dispute that this extraordinarily broad definition is "common usage".
Common usage covers only points 3 and 4, below. It would be helpful if
creationists were clear about what they feel is in dispute.
> > > A more precise understanding of the above statement divides the "atoms to
> > > people" transition into four realms:
> > >
> > > 1.Cosmology is the branch of astronomy which deals with the origin and
> > > formation of the general structure of the universe.
I'd challenge you to find many people outside your circle that consider
cosmology part of evolution or vice versa.
I for one will not dispute that science has not yet provided a satisfactory
explanation/causation for the origin of the universe. And I suspect it never
will, as the origin of a system is necessarily outside that system.
I don't consider the question as particularly important, though. It is
unlikely that explaining the origin of a system will be a useful predictor
of much within the system. So I don't find this particular "failing" as any
sort of a damning of the scientific method.
> > > 2.Abiogenesis refers to first life - the production of living organisms
> > > from inanimate matter.
I for one will not dispute that science has not yet provided a satisfactory
explanation/causation for the origin of life within the universe. However,
here I hold out a great deal more hope. I suspect that someday a
satisfactory theory that explains it and makes useful predictions will be
put forth. Preliminary work has been good but suggests that it will be
dauntingly complex (not undoable, just hard).
Here, I consider the question much more important. Answering this question
will help us understand how crowded our neighborhood is, and as we run into
limits to growth in this solar system, that is terribly important. We may
have to plan for the likelyhood that we may not be able to claim much
unclaimed extrasolar real estate.
> > > 3.Micro-evolution or speciation refers to populational and species
> > > change
> > > through time. There are many published examples of speciation, if by the
> > > development of a new "species" we mean the development of a new population
> > > of
> > > individuals which will not breed with the original population to produce
> > > fertile offspring. Micro-evolution is a scientific fact which no one,
> > > including creationists, dispute.
> > >
> > > 4.Macro-evolution or general evolution refers the progression to more
> > > complex forms of life. The mechanisms of macro-evolution, including whether
> > > or
> > > not micro-evolution over a long enough time leads to macro-evolution, can be
> > > regarded as a "research topic".
++Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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| (...) Now, I'm a bit confused - you've replied to my post without quoting any of my new material - what are you referring to ?? Is this "question" you're referring to in the above paragraph the question of abiogenesis (my 2.) or what??? (...) (24 years ago, 22-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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