Subject:
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Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 21 Jan 2001 03:47:13 GMT
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Viewed:
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1472 times
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Perhaps it would be helpful to break apart the different things that are
ascribed to the term "evolution."
Common usage of the word "evolution" is the idea that living things in our
world have come into being through unguided naturalistic processes
starting from a primeval mass of subatomic particles and radiation, over
approximately 20 billion years.
A more precise understanding of the above statement divides the "atoms to
people" transition into four realms:
1.Cosmology is the branch of astronomy which deals with the origin and
formation of the general structure of the universe.
2.Abiogenesis refers to first life - the production of living organisms
from inanimate matter.
3.Micro-evolution or speciation refers to populational and species change
through time. There are many published examples of speciation, if by the
development of a new "species" we mean the development of a new population of
individuals which will not breed with the original population to produce
fertile offspring. Micro-evolution is a scientific fact which no one,
including creationists, dispute.
4.Macro-evolution or general evolution refers the progression to more
complex forms of life. The mechanisms of macro-evolution, including whether or
not micro-evolution over a long enough time leads to macro-evolution, can be
regarded as a "research topic".
Lerry has focused on 3. In fact, bacterial resitance is almost similar to you
or I gaining immunity to a pathogen - I don't typically think I'm evolving
when that happens.
My new thread is focused on 2. (and to a lesser degree 1.)
I hope this helps to focus the debate such that tangents can be avoided.
-Jon
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Low writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jon Kozan writes:
> > Evolution is not observable.
>
> See Larry's post here:
> http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=8724
>
> The source you quote on abiogenesis doesn't discuss evolution as a force in
> living things, presumably since it is irrefutable, and eminently observable.
> He focuses on the least observable, most speculative and most important
> aspect, the origin of life. Obviously life evolving from non-life is a much
> larger step, which might well be impossible to prove, if there is no longer
> any physical evidence of what happened. However, if evolutionary theory can
> explain the process, then I personally prefer it to the "blink of the divine
> eyelid" theory.
>
> > And to state it again - I'm not attempting to convince you of Creationism • here
> > - just that evolution is impossible. You've tried to loop creationism and
> > spirituality back into things - sorry if it appears that that is what I'm
> > doing.
>
> Sorry if my point seems unfair, it's just that most people I have come
> across who have any interest in disproving evolution are Creationists. I
> don't think it's reasonable to to continually attack a generally accepted
> tenet of modern science without admitting thatt you have religious
> motivations for doing so.
>
> --DaveL
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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| (...) This is not true, there are creationists that dispute it. SRC for example. (...) I don't think these mechanisms are at all similar, really. (although since the argument is made that we are actually colonies of cooperating organisms who happen (...) (23 years ago, 21-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Problems with Christianity and Darwinism
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| (...) See Larry's post here: (URL) source you quote on abiogenesis doesn't discuss evolution as a force in living things, presumably since it is irrefutable, and eminently observable. He focuses on the least observable, most speculative and most (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jan-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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