Subject:
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Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 6 Dec 2000 06:52:39 GMT
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Viewed:
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1193 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tom Stangl writes:
> Bill Farkas wrote:
>
> > > But wasn't Satan created for his amusement too?
> >
> > God didn't create Satan. He created Lucifer, who was His Archangel. Lucifer
> > coveted God's position and wanted to be like God and receive man's worship.
> > A third of God's angels went with Lucifer. They were cast out. Lucifer chose
> > to rebel just as we choose to rebel. God did not make it happen. He knew it
> > would, but He did not cause it.
>
> Knowing that it would happen, but creating Lucifer anyways, he in effect DID >cause it. Just as he has caused all sin in history, as he created everyone >knowing exactly what would happen.
Knowing is not the same as causing. Parents teach their children to walk
knowing that they will fall during the process. Does that mean that they
pushed them? Did they cause them to fall? No, of course not.
All of Gid's attributes must intermingle: love with justice and righteousness.
>
>
> >
> > Only problem is - He didn't cause the ship to sink, we did.
>
> Sure he did - he created us, knowing we would cause the ship to sink, so in >effect, HE caused it to sink.
This argument doesn't stand. If He was fully prepared to deal with any
problems WE created, then He is justified in going ahead with the scenario.
His predictive ability does not carry responsibility.
>
> > He offered to
> > rescue us in spite of ourselves. And most people who realize they need a
> > life-raft will do what it takes. I disagree with the vague and contradictory
> > part - a little effort will solve both - but that's the point (re: Jesus'
> > statement as to why He spoke in parables).
>
> And someone with no contact with Christians, divining their own god in the >process, goes to hell. I don't buy it, Christianity is petty and cruel.
It's interesting to me that this same logic is what you and others use to
condemn Christians for believing in God. We are criticized for believing in
a foolish, contrived, unsubstantiated system that defies logic and reason;
and for not having the mental capacity to question it and find the real
truth found in empirical evidence. Now, you wish to use this in defense of
these people who follow their own religion. You blame me for not questioning
my faith, but justify them for not questioning their faith. Can't have it
both ways, I'm afraid.
> Ignorance should not damn you.
Tell that to our law enforcement and judicial systems. That argument doesn't
stand in our own courts. Why should it stand in His?
In spite of all the complexities, there is ultimately *one* truth. If there
is *one* God and He has manifested Himself in *one* fashion, it follows that
there is *one* way to reach Him.
Romans chapter 2 deals with this controversy in detail. Each person is
responsible for himself. If he accepts what he has been taught without
questioning it, then so be it. As a citizen is required to research and
comply with the laws of the land, the same implies to each individual
concerning God. We each have it within us to question the "meaning of life".
If we settle for any ol' answer, who is to blame? God?
It's also interesting to me when people complain and say, "Why isn't God
like this or that?", that if you put all those man-made expectations
together it resembles nearly every other religion in the world - implying
their man-made nature.
Christianity is the only belief system with these types of unique
perspectives. Assuming that there is an enemy of truth that seeks to confuse
mankind and keep him from God - would he create an atmosphere of many truths
and one lie (i.e., the claim that all roads lead to God, Christianity
therefore being the lie); or many lies and one truth?
>
> >
> > If people ignore them it's their own fault. Not hearing is something
> > different. Addressed it above about creation revealing God, etc.
>
> Ah, but if someone divine's a god (small g) that is not YOUR Christian God, >simply from "not hearing" about Your God, they go to hell. How petty (and >vengeful, even).
Again, if someone genuinely wants to know *the* truth, God will show Himself
to that person. As demonstrated here, some people simply don't *want* to
believe. They choose to believe in a god of their own making, in many cases
(not all, of course). The Bible speaks of the Bereans, who would check out
every word that anyone would preach to them. Sounds like the way to be. Each
individual is responsible for what they themselves *CHOOSE* to believe. "I
was raised that way," is no excuse.
>
The unbelievable thing is not that He condemns some, but that He saves any.
If He was as petty as you say, He could have condemned everybody.
Bill
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