Subject:
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Re: Do market based societies select for virtue? (was Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:02:07 GMT
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Reply-To:
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ssgore@superonline.com%AvoidSpam%
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Viewed:
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787 times
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Bill Farkas wrote:
>
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Selçuk Göre writes:
> >
> >
> > Bill Farkas wrote:
> > >
> > > Yet, it also has to be admitted what role the religion of a majority of a
> > > societies population has had upon the assessment of decency. By saying that,
> > > I am not referring to Christianity alone, but to any society that has a
> > > dominant faith. Atheistic societies are far more barbaric than those
> > > dominated by Islam, Budhism, Hinduism or any flavor.
> >
> >
> > I can't really figure out if there is any atheistic society. As I know
> > of every society now has some sort of religion right now, as I guess but
> > of course I'm not sure. I really appreciate if you give some living (or
> > lived in some time) examples of that.
>
> I was speaking mainly of communist/socialist governments that replace
> religion with the state.
I don't think they hit to ground because of the lack of religion, but
because they tried to force an unrealistic utopia as an economic model.
In fact they hit the ground economically, not socially (although I
should admit that economic failures of a society almost every time
results in social decay, whether they have a religion at the beginning
or not)
> > On the contrary, I know, as being a middle eastern, more than enough
> > barbarism can find a place for itself in Islamic population, and just
> > for the name of Islam.
>
> I know what you mean, I spent 15 months in the Middle East and witnessed
> much of it first hand.
I assume you are an army man in one of the US bases?
> > And I'm sure we also all know about Christianity
> > based barbarism has a very large place in our written history, I mean
> > crusades and plundering the whole earth in the name of god.
> >
> > I always think that if a person chooses to be bad, can rationalize his
> > actions by using his/her belief system, even can get support from other
> > believers by insisting on that he/she done all those nasty things in the
> > name of God, since too many people dare enough to being critical about
> > god's words.
> >
> > Selçuk
>
> I like that you said, "if a person chooses to be bad", this is really the
> crux of the whole matter of depravity.
In utopical sense it can be "the crux of whole matter" but in reality it
*really* doesn't matter. Because in reality people quite frequently
chooses to be bad, and religion can not avoid them being that, proved by
history and recent things all around the world, and even can be used for
the sake of being bad and rationalizing it, and getting support from the
masses for being bad, again proved by history.
For the clarity, I feel that I should repeat that I'm debating about
"how religion is practically handy for obtaining a well behaved people
in real life" (not in utopical sense) since at least two of the people
(you and J. Neal as I remember) here said that religion is the thing
that saved us terrans from being extinct, whereas lack of religion can
lead us to self destruction. I'm not debating about the religion itself
as a concept, since I have nothing to debate about it. I've already done
it in my past, preferred to believe it a stupid thing, and I'm still a
rather good person and a good member of the society, even with the lack
of a supreme being. Heck, many people around thinks that playing with
lego is a stupid thing, but I'm playing with Lego since I love it, and
not trying it to prove how good or clever or obvious it is a good thing
to anyone.
Selçuk
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