Subject:
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Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:19:48 GMT
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Reply-To:
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ssgore@%saynotospam%superonline.com
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Viewed:
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984 times
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John Neal wrote:
>
> Selçuk Göre wrote:
>
> > > Holocaust, to take one of your examples. How can "civilized" people can allow
> > > that to happen; to participate, and to allow themselves to be convinced that it
> > > was justified? And please go lightly on the Germans; what happened there could
> > > happen *anywhere*.
> >
> > Those Germans were Christians, right? And most of the US people (at
> > least the first settlers who "cleaned the indians") are also Christians,
> > right? The southern states of US, who known to be more religious and
> > conservative than the northern part of country (it can be just an
> > illusion, but I'm an ignorant middle eastern you know), were the ones
> > fighting against their Christian brothers from the north, to preserve
> > their right to having slaves, right? Crusades to the middle east, of
> > which the sole purpose is plundering the lands where on which they
> > placed their feet, was made "in the name of god", right? The many nasty
> > things performed by the "engizition" (sp?) during the middle age also
> > performed for the name of god, right? First in Iran, now in Afghanistan,
> > government tortures their own citizens for the sake of god, right?
> >
> > Conclusion?
>
> "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are
> ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns,
> or figs from thistles? So, every sound tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears
> evil fruit. A sound tree cannot bear evil fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
> Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus
> you will know them by their fruits."
>
> (Matt 7:15-20)
So what? Is this well written part of the bible (or any other similar
sentences from any other holy books) could avoid the above things and
many others from being happened? As I know of, it just provide necessary
tools to get support from masses.
Religion is the thing that saving us, and atheism leads to social decay.
I and history said religion is not a thing that saves us from social
decay, even it can just provide the otherwise.
> > People can rationalize their acts with their beliefs, and can do it very
> > easily. Any given religion cannot provide "high moral grounds" for
> > anyone,
>
> Of course it can.
Maybe it can, but in reality it didn't. Prove otherwise. I'm not talking
about "if such an such, then such and such" kind of utopia. Utopias are
fun, but silly otherwise. In fact, religions can provide a very
sufficient tool for an anti utopia, which also proved by the history,
since you can use it to get support from the masses for your actions
since religious matters are not the things to be open for critical
discussion for most of the believers.
> > and I think I'm safe to believe it otherwise, which is "we would
> > have self doomed ourselves if there is no religion" is nonsense.
>
> Godless men leading a path to destruction? Makes sense to me. You have even cited
> examples for me.
I think you should reread the message, and if you want to play Dr. Scott
instead of debating, I quit.
Selçuk
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