Subject:
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Re: The god debate again... sigh (Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 29 Nov 2000 16:27:54 GMT
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Viewed:
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985 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bill Farkas writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bill Farkas writes:
> >
> > > Nearly every major event in
> > > history can be linked to Judaism or Christianity in some way (nitpick caveat
> > > - I said "nearly").
> >
> >
> > Ummmmmmm, what are you defining as a "major event"? Greek major events
> > excluded? Roman? Chinese? Indian? Japanese? Egyptian? Sumerian?
> > Assyrian? Mayan? Viking? Scientific?
>
> Again, that's why I said "nearly".
Rarely, on the above list, which is why I dispute your claim.
> I was referring mainly to such things as
> the World Wars, the Reformation, the Renaissance, the Dark Ages, Israel's
> significance to everything Middle Eastern (both because of location and
> direct involvement), to the Inquisition, the discovery of the New
> World....things that had Global impact.
Kind of a eurocentric viewpoint to claim nearly every major event. See below.
> Yet, as far as Greek and Romans are
> concerned, the link can be and has been made that the two civilizations set
> the stage for the coming of the Messiah, as the Egyptians did for the
> Exodus.
Defining Egypt as solely a place that the Jews passed through is belittling
its accomplishments in organization, construction, irrigation, metalwork,
art, etc.
I don't see how the Greeks set the stage for the coming of the Messiah at
all beyond Alexander conquered the middle east at one point. Again, the
major events of the Greek world hardly touch on Judaism and Christianity.
Rome had long established it's major contributions before it got involved in
the middle east.
> Sumerian and Assyrian have direct Biblical relevance as well, and
> are all over the Old Testament.
But you are only defining them in terms of the Bible, and often we are
talking about negative effect, not positive.
I don't think the Vikings had any
> significant role in any major global upheaval, did they?
Colonization of Iceland and Greenland. "Discovery" of the New World.
Established Dublin. Beseiged Paris. Fought as the Varangian Guard for the
Byzantines. Established Kiev. Conquered England twice (Danelaw and the
"housebroken" Vikings known as Normans). Traded and raided in the
Mediterranean. They had a profound effect on Europe (if only to force them
to get more Lego, build better Castles to keep out the Vikings).
Yet as the fought
> across Europe in the 800's to the 1100's they did convert to Christianity
> (nyah nya nyah nya nyah nyah).
And then lost all steam and had little further effect unless you play with
Lego(double-nyahh 'cause you just proved my point on major events <g>).
> I admit that I have neglected India, the Far
> East and the Mayans, but again, though they have made numerous valuable
> contributions to history at large, I don't think they affected any global
> world changing events like those mentioned above.
The Dark Ages was a localized European event. The Reformation the same.
World War II included Japan and China last I recall. Isreal was a small
time-player in comparison to the Macedonians, Egyptians, Assyrians,
Babylonians, Persians, Romans, and other powers of the Middle East. The
Inquisition: again, a western event. Discovery of the New World: well,
noting that they didn't, it *was* a significant event, but it it was done by
Christians, but not *because* they were Christians.
> As far as science, many
> scientific breakthroughs were made by Christians. Regardless, I said "nearly".
Often in spite of Christians. The point being "nearly" is *highly*
inaccurate. And that's all I'm really disputing.
Bruce
> >
> > That's not to say that many major events weren't linked in some significant
> > way to Judaism or Christianity, but you'll have to excuse me raising my
> > eyebrows in doubt.
> >
> > Bruce
>
> Bill
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