Subject:
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Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 28 Nov 2000 09:43:50 GMT
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Viewed:
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412 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz writes:
> David Eaton wrote:
> >
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz writes:
> > > One of the central arguments against libertarian principles is that
> > > there will be more poor starving folks. I assert that this will not be
> > > the case.
> > >
> > > It is to my benefit that my neighbor isn't starving and desperate. If he
> > > is, he is likely to rob me. If he busts my car window to get a stereo
> > > which he sells to a pawn shop, something like $100 has been wasted, all
> > > to transfer about $100 worth of wealth from me to other folks. So in the
> > > end, I'd ultimately rather just give the fellow a hundred bucks. Of
> > > course, ideally, I'd like to give him that hundred bucks using a system
> > > which encouraged him to use it not just to feed his wants, but to also
> > > make himself more valuable to society.
> >
> > Here's where I have a big problem with that view. Your reasoning behind
> > wanting to give your next door neighbor the $100 seems solely based on the
> > fact that if you don't, he has the potential to cause more damage to you.
> > Hence, it seems to me that you're building up a society based on a threat.
> > Why should I give him money? Cuz if I don't, he'll cost me more, or beat me
> > up, or kill me, or whatever.
>
> <snip>
>
> > A. moral character
> > B. positive accomplishments
> > C. intellect
> > D. genuine need
> >
> > or any one of a bunch of things I would deem more valid of a reason other
> > than 'threat potential'. But if you mean something else, I dunno...
>
> I had a feeling I had incompletely communicated my stance. I do think
> that altruistic charity based on qualities like you list above is the
> most effective. My point is more that one needs to look at the entire
> system and examine all the costs and benefits. Ultimately of course,
> fear based giving isn't going to be too effective, but it probably is
> more effective than putting the poor slob into a position where the only
> way he sees to get ahead is destructive action. The most efficient
> system of course is to encourage the fellow to constructive action.
"Altruistic Charity"
In a strong a economy, we would expect to have higher disposable income. We
may choose to use that to better the circumstances of others, or we may
choose to go to "Wally World" - that is a personal choice. If the
Libertarian form of government were to exist, libertarians would argue that
there would be more disposable income within society - even after paying for
health, education, etc. So during a strong economic climate, money may well
find its way to the needy to provide some level of sustenance. But what
happens during recessions? Property{1} holders would have to choose between:
1. Wally World, or giving to the needy.
2. Maintaining education for their children, or giving to the needy.
3. Maintaining healthcare for their family, or giving to the needy.
4. Maintaining healthcare for their family, or maintaining education for
their children.
Those without property, or little of it, may have to choose between
food/health/education.
Scott A
{1} I’m using the word “property” in a broad sense. Understanding property,
appears to be key to understanding libertarianism – it is often called
propertarianism. There appears, from what I understand, to be a fundamental
debate within the LP about this issue. This largely centres around the
question of its definition, how is it attained and how it may be transferred.
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Will Libertopia cause the needy to get less?
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| (...) <snip> (...) I had a feeling I had incompletely communicated my stance. I do think that altruistic charity based on qualities like you list above is the most effective. My point is more that one needs to look at the entire system and examine (...) (24 years ago, 27-Nov-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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