Subject:
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Re: Parental strategies? (was: Re: Abortion, consistent with the LP stance? (Re: From Harry Browne)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 13 Nov 2000 17:02:39 GMT
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Reply-To:
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JOHNNEAL@USWEST.saynotospamNET
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Viewed:
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1014 times
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Christopher Weeks wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> >
> > Christopher Weeks wrote:
> > >
> > > I am careful to let my son know that we don't own him and
> > > that he is not our slave. We practice a
> > > parental philosophy of no forceful coersion.
> >
> > how old is your son?
>
> Six (and three months).
Got it.
> > And why would he think that you might "own" him, or that he
> > is your "slave"?
>
> Are you asking why he would put it in those words? He wouldn't.
Yes. Okay.
> Or are you
> asking where he would get the idea that when dad says "go to your room" he
> must? If the latter, most children get that idea based on the fact that their
> parents will physically coerce them to obey if they choose not to. That is not
> normally appropriate.
How about the thinking that "if I don't go to my room when my parents ask, they
will be displeased with me and I want them to love me, not be unhappy with me, so
I will do it". This is the usual motivation IMO, not that "if I don't do x, then
my parents will forcibly make me do x". If parents raise their children in such a
way that the children respect them, then I think coercion is not is the formula,
especially at such a young age as 6.
> If my son is going to run out in the street, I will pull him back. I would do
> that to save you from getting hit by a bus, too. My son is a small human and I
> get him to do stuff for me the same way I get other people to do stuff for me.
How is that? Why wouldn't dealing with your son be different than dealing with
strangers? I think it's very different.
> Further, my son doesn't get punished. It doesn't work, it removes his
> psychological need to make things right, and it build animosity and a power
> relationship that doesn't have a place in my family. (Or, I would suggest, in
> any.)
Doesn't get punished??? How can you discipline your son, then? Believe me, your
son will not have animosity towards you if you punish him. He will respect you
for it, because it will show him that you care about him and his welfare (I am not
talking about spanking; I personally have never hit my kids <11 & 13> and don't
believe in it). But surely you must agree that disobedience requires
consequences. How are you going to teach your son to take responsibility for his
actions?
> Most children are their parents' slaves, whether or not the child or the parent
> thinks of it in those terms.
Disagree. If anything, I would say the opposite. My life now revolves around my
kids' lives. Please explain what you mean.
> > (I assume you mean that you don't "own him" in the sense that he is your
> > *property*, but would say that he is *your* child and thus *your*
> > responsibility.)
>
> He is my responsibility, and he is his own responsibility. What exactly do you
> mean?
I think we are on the same page here.
> > It just struck me as odd that a child would even consider
> > these possibilities.
> >
> > Now, as far as discipline goes, don't we (mustn't we) impose our
> > wills upon our children every day?
>
> No. Never. That is not the way between equals and friends.
We are not talking about "equals and friends", we are talking about our children,
who are neither. There is a huge difference.
> > Maybe I am not understanding what you mean when you say "no
> > forceful coersion" Please explain.
>
> It sounds as if you understand. You just don't think I can mean what I do.
> But I do. My son has freedom without license, to use a common phrase.
Please explain a little more what you mean about "freedom without license". When
I understand that, then we can discuss scenarios. But I will say this-- too much
freedom for a child is a *bad* thing IMO. Children *need* boundaries, they need
to know within what limits they can act. This provides reassurance and a sense of
safety. As they mature, more freedoms can be added, but only in amounts they can
handle. This is different for every child, and up to responsible parents to
determine.
Only when an individual is fully mature (18 is fine, I suppose) AND/OR on their
own should total freedom be awarded. Total freedom at any point sooner ends up
being harmful to the individual and society as a whole, IMO
-John
> If you want to build scenarios, you will be able to find (non-critical)
> difficulties with my system. But I will happily address them. I think this is
> terribly important, but I've had relatively little effect in getting people to
> see my way. At least _my_ kids get to grow up as the empowered equalls of the
> adults around them.
>
> Chris
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