Subject:
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Re: Why is cockfighting bad? (was: Pokemon (was: Harry Potter Lego Line))
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 22 Jul 2000 14:55:11 GMT
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Viewed:
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1715 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Jeremy H. Sproat writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > I tend to think of nerves and some kind of processor as being needed to • really
> > consider it sensation. But maybe it's fuzzier than that. I'm not sure your
> > plant-based examples count. A rock gets hot when the sun shines...is the • rock
> > sensing the sun?
>
> The box jellyfish -- posessing eyes but no central nervous system -- sees a
> danger and swimg away from it, but does it perceive it?
Cool example. I have acknowledged that there is fuzziness. But at least so
far as examples of sentience I think that having eyes counts. I'm not sure
that gets it off the hook regarding my morals about eating.
> > Well, we can clearly state that plants don't _know_ anything about their
> > surroundings. They don't feel pain. They don't have purpose or drive. They
> > autonomically react to chemical etc. stimuli.
>
> It's a matter of degree.
Maybe.
> The brain is simply a well-tuned bundle of cells
> that automatically reacts to chemical stimuli.
Obviously we aren't going to solve all of the epistemological issues here on
LUGNET, but my stance on this follows.
I have no evidence to contradict this. I don't belive in any higher force,
which further supports this claim and leads away from the claim that we have
self-determination. So fine, we may be robots in a big chemical equation, just
doing what we're going to do. Unless quantum physics and chaos come to the
rescue and explains free will. But we (I) don't know. So, we do or we don't
have free will.
The way I see it, there is nothing to be gained by assuming that we lack free
will. If we do lack, and we accept that, then we'll allow it to justify
whatever we do because we obviously have no choice. That's bad. If we lack,
but don't accept it (because we can't for whatever reason, right?) then there
is nothing lost since we're just following the predetermined cues. But if we
have free will, failing to act like it, is ruinously bad for no reason.
Assuming that we do have free will (whatever the source - I'm still not looking
to supernatural explanations) has no down side.
So I'm going with the assumption that somehow, my brain - and maybe all brains,
do something a bit different than just react in a predetermined way.
> And a root *will* seek out
> nutrients. A stressed tree *will* go into shock.
But the tree has no choice about where the roots go. Springs seek to unwind,
heat seeks to spread, etc.
> It's the same behavior as
> seen in life forms of any level of complexity.
I think the brain and CNS provides for additional behaviors not exhibited by
plants, and certainly motivations.
Chris
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